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hey Greg this is Chris some just north

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of Pittsburgh PA I just found out about

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you maybe a month ago I think I found

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you on Freeman TV and I think your show

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is really good just listen to Saturn

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death cult it was awesome your shows are

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really fun I just wanna let you know I

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appreciate what you do new listener and

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I'm just going to keep listening man be

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through the determination here we go our

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side chatters welcome to THC drinking a

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little drink smoking a ton of smoke and

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join a sunny day in San Diego I'm Greg

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Karl wood and today is such an

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interesting show because typically we

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explore so many weird topics like UFO

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abductions secret underground bases

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classified military experiments child

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pedophilia rings of the elite all kinds

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of stuff and a lot of these subjects

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imply that some people might go missing

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sometimes either to be tested on or

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forced to work at these underground

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facilities or kids take it and trade it

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among the political financial and

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religious elite or maybe some folks

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might get involved in an unsavory

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encounter with a non recruited there's a

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lot of weirdness out there but usually

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when you get down to the details there's

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not a ton of names or evidence of

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victims gone missing for these

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large-scale conspiracies or encounters

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and today is almost a polar opposite

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show we have a ton of victims of strange

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circumstance that have gone missing and

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some have come back but others don't yet

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we have almost no story or clues as to

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why they disappeared or what happened to

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them because a lot of the clues we do

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have completely defy logic and these

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could be victims of some of the earlier

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conspiracies or situations I mentioned

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or we could be dealing with a completely

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new and different phenomenon altogether

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one that you could say the National Park

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Service might even know about and is

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trying to keep a lid on now when a lot

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of us think about the perfect getaway

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from the hectic nine-to-five many

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envision a camping trip or hike among

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the fresh air and beautiful landscapes

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of sweet mother nature but after hearing

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about the work of today's guest that

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might all change david Politis has spent

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20 years in law enforcement out here in

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california and he holds two degrees from

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the university of san francisco and now

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has three volumes out of his ax men

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using phonebook thick series about

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missing people missing for one one it

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explores what he's come to find is a

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shockingly vast number of strange

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disappearances within national parks and

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other remote areas mainly within the

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United States and Canada but as the

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research continues it seems pretty safe

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to say that these odd commonalities

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among the missing extend around the

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globe I've had a hell of a time reading

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about these cases and I don't think I've

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ever been more perplexed by a topic that

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included so much data and evidence that

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something strange is clearly going on

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and I can't wait to get down to it David

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my man welcome to the show

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hey thanks Greg appreciate being here

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yeah thanks so much I mean you've

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created an amazing archive of missing

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people and there seems to be a lot of

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curiosity and interest over the cases

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you've gathered because they're so

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strange but in the sheer numbers are

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pretty staggering too but I think

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there's kind of a tendency to see shows

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like Nancy Grace on TV or hear about

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these huge famous cases of a kid gone

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missing that we get every other year so

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and I think people are under the

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impression that the coverage of those

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cases that that's an indication of the

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amount of people and children that

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really go missing but that's pretty far

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from the truth isn't it man I mean you

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fill three books at this point correct

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actually that we just reached the fourth

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book a few weeks ago Wow the topic is

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very very complex without having a view

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of from 50,000 feet it may look as

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though it's mundane but when you get

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into the nitty-gritty details of it you

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start to realize that there really is

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something here yeah and I know you've

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spent a ton of time in the great

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outdoors yourself and together with your

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law enforcement background these things

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really put you in a prime position to be

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the guy who's doing this work because

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you recognize the strangeness and the

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patterns and most importantly the way

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that government agencies like the

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National Park Service are supposed to

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act and they've been very kind of

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combative with you and withheld some

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information sometimes unlawfully along

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the way as you've tried to gather this

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data it's been kind of strange hasn't it

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well I think it's a strange position for

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them to take that's for sure there's

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there's no doubt about it I don't I

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don't get it what are some of the

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experiences you've had along the way

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trying to get

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some documentation for cases as you

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compile these books well again we're

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nobody special than anybody else we run

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this organization under a website called

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the km missing project and we just write

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Freedom of Information Act request

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directly to the Park Service just like

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everybody else and according to the laws

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in the US we have a right to government

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documents as long as they're not secret

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and they don't compromise the the wall

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fare of the public and one of the first

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things we requested was a list of

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missing people from the 183 locations

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that the Park Service manages and to our

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astonishment they came back saying that

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they don't keep track of information on

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missing people and they don't have any

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lists of missing people and apparently

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they don't keep track of missing people

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Wow a pretty astonishing statement

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coming from a group that has one of the

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largest federal law enforcement

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contingents in the United States their

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law enforcement officers are all

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graduates at the federal law enforcement

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training institute one of the best

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training centers in the United States

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and and probably the world so they

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definitely know the political

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correctness of needing this information

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and as every law enforcement person that

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has contacted me says they do not

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believe the Park Service they believe

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they have the information and they're

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not giving it out seems like the one

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thing that they should be doing well as

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a another Park Service employee told me

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about a year ago they they know the

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number of toilet paper rolls they have

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in the parks so to say that they don't

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keep track of everything at a my new

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show level that's ridiculous it's a

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government agency they know the

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importance of keeping this information

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and to say they don't have it as

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ridiculous yeah and I mean again you're

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just finishing the fourth volume of

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these books and these are not just

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regular missing people cases I mean

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these are cases that have strange

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commonalities which we will get into

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some of them but these are the cases

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where you filtered out a lot of the

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standard reasons people might think that

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someone would go missing in a national

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park or out in the wilderness some of

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the things that seem a little more

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mundane these are only the cases that

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have these these weird oddities right

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correct there's a profile that we came

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up with after reading a couple thousand

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cases and that profile is the only one

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that we applies in the only one that we

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will do research about so say somebody

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wants to voluntarily disappear somebody

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who has mental issues drownings things

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like that are excluded yeah animal

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attacks they're excluded things like

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that that would be the vast bulk of the

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missing-persons cases we don't look into

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them but after reading many many many

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cases you start to see certain oddities

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fall out of the group and again these

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aren't easily found and a normal person

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would never find them and a person

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working on a search-and-rescue team and

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in a county would never understand this

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unless you looked at cases and I'm

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talking thousands of cases from North

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primarily North America but there's a

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small percentage that are falling

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outside the US as well in fact in the

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last year we've found a big association

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between cases in Australia in cases here

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in North America and the oddities here

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have carried over there in the last

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century as well but yeah the normal

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cases that you hear about the news no we

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don't work on but if the if they do fit

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the profile then we count them it's so

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interesting that you're finding this to

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be a global phenomenon because that just

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adds another layer of mystery to it

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because you can't chalk it up to just

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you know one group of crazy people in

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Yosemite who live in the backwoods who

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kidnap kids you know you can't chalk it

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up to one thing in this area or one

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thing in another or even the whole

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country I mean it makes it makes you

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think that there's something going on

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that's there's something out there that

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we just don't even know or a force that

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deals with people in nature that we just

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don't have

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information on well and you did bring up

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Yosemite so that's the largest cluster

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of missing people in the world that fall

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into the profile we've established now

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there's 52 clusters of missing people in

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North America that we've identified that

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Yosemite cluster is huge it goes back

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about 120 years and you're right you

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couldn't say that it's a group of serial

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killers in North America that are at

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these different locations that have gone

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about killing people because it

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surpasses a generation and therein lies

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one of the mysteries behind widest

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probably has never been understood or

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identified in the past a lot of these

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disappearances one may occur let's say

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in Crater Lake National Park today one

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more may occur in 14 years and then one

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more may occur in 16 years

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so three disappearances in one area

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would establish a cluster but that's

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more than 30 years and generally law

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enforcement people don't stay more than

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25 or 30 years on the job so when you

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look at in just your career well two

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incidences in 30 years you might not

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think much about but when you have four

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or five or six in a 30 year period it's

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going to raise the interest of everybody

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in that area and say something strange

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is going on here it's just enough not to

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raise the suspicion on a majority of

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occasions now I bring up Crater Lake

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because there's been five or six boys

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under the age of fourteen that have

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disappeared

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in or directly around Crater Lake under

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really really suspicious circumstances

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definitely do you want to tell us about

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a couple of those cases well I'll just

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briefly say that one boy was with his

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dad and his grandpa and they were

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looking for a Christmas tree right on

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the outskirts a part of the park and in

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area where there was nobody and they

276
00:11:21,380 --> 00:11:18,830
lost track of the boy for a short while

277
00:11:24,470 --> 00:11:21,390
just after the boy disappeared started

278
00:11:27,560 --> 00:11:24,480
snowing snowing and it continued snowing

279
00:11:29,570 --> 00:11:27,570
for days make a very long story short a

280
00:11:31,710 --> 00:11:29,580
massive search effort went into this the

281
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:31,720
boy was never found

282
00:11:37,560 --> 00:11:35,200
now there is a weather phenomena related

283
00:11:40,740 --> 00:11:37,570
and it is part of this profiling that we

284
00:11:43,830 --> 00:11:40,750
do that and we can't explain why but in

285
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:43,840
a majority of these circumstances when

286
00:11:47,610 --> 00:11:46,810
somebody disappears the weather changes

287
00:11:50,730 --> 00:11:47,620
for the worse

288
00:11:54,270 --> 00:11:50,740
and sometimes it's rain sometimes it's

289
00:11:56,610 --> 00:11:54,280
fog sometimes it's snow but it deeply

290
00:12:00,330 --> 00:11:56,620
hampers the search effort now also in

291
00:12:02,430 --> 00:12:00,340
crater lake there's a boy who had a

292
00:12:04,950 --> 00:12:02,440
disability and he had a mental

293
00:12:07,490 --> 00:12:04,960
disability and his name was Sammy bulky

294
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:07,500
and his dad went up there on a vacation

295
00:12:12,930 --> 00:12:10,240
Sammy ran up on a mound of dirt on a

296
00:12:14,970 --> 00:12:12,940
turnout where they stopped and he turned

297
00:12:17,580 --> 00:12:14,980
and he walked off the mound the dad ran

298
00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:17,590
out ran up to that mound looked into the

299
00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:20,560
force didn't see the boy huge search the

300
00:12:23,970 --> 00:12:21,760
boy was never seen again

301
00:12:26,220 --> 00:12:23,980
now therein lies another part of the

302
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:26,230
profile on another higher percentage of

303
00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:30,490
these cases is kids or adults with

304
00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:32,290
disabilities and we're talking we're not

305
00:12:36,540 --> 00:12:33,760
talking just mental these can be

306
00:12:39,300 --> 00:12:36,550
physical these can be some type of rare

307
00:12:41,130 --> 00:12:39,310
diseases that some people never have but

308
00:12:43,710 --> 00:12:41,140
this these people disappear and

309
00:12:47,250 --> 00:12:43,720
sometimes they're never found and so

310
00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:47,260
people with disabilities is another area

311
00:12:51,540 --> 00:12:49,360
that we started to track in the last

312
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:51,550
three years that has gotten some real

313
00:12:57,210 --> 00:12:54,370
interesting results yeah that is a weird

314
00:12:59,130 --> 00:12:57,220
one I mean I'd say probably the cases

315
00:13:00,840 --> 00:12:59,140
that interest me the most the

316
00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:00,850
commonalities that seem most mysterious

317
00:13:04,980 --> 00:13:03,040
to me would be the ones where young

318
00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:04,990
children go missing and are found much

319
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:07,120
further away than a child should be able

320
00:13:11,060 --> 00:13:08,890
to travel in the woods alone and this

321
00:13:13,170 --> 00:13:11,070
happens time and time again doesn't it

322
00:13:15,870 --> 00:13:13,180
so I'm glad you brought that up because

323
00:13:19,530 --> 00:13:15,880
I've given many talks in front of large

324
00:13:20,850 --> 00:13:19,540
groups and I always asked the audience I

325
00:13:23,220 --> 00:13:20,860
say how many people in the room have

326
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:23,230
kids and usually it's about two-thirds

327
00:13:27,090 --> 00:13:24,970
they raise their hand and I and I ask

328
00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:27,100
them well when you had a two-year-old

329
00:13:31,079 --> 00:13:29,650
boy or girl if we put them in the middle

330
00:13:33,450 --> 00:13:31,089
of the forest and we told them to walk

331
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:33,460
out and they didn't know the direction

332
00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:35,170
to walk out how far would they go before

333
00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:37,360
they sat down and gave up or sat down

334
00:13:43,260 --> 00:13:40,210
and took a nap and usually the answers

335
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:43,270
range anywhere from a hundred yards to

336
00:13:47,550 --> 00:13:45,120
maybe a mile

337
00:13:49,650 --> 00:13:47,560
right and then I asked him well would

338
00:13:53,670 --> 00:13:49,660
they walk uphill or downhill and it

339
00:13:55,860 --> 00:13:53,680
usually it's 99% say downhill and so I

340
00:13:58,740 --> 00:13:55,870
like to ask you Greg since you read a

341
00:14:00,510 --> 00:13:58,750
lot of the stories what is a reasonable

342
00:14:04,020 --> 00:14:00,520
distance that a two-year-old would walk

343
00:14:06,870 --> 00:14:04,030
in your opinion after reading man I mean

344
00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:06,880
I would say at max two miles I mean

345
00:14:10,830 --> 00:14:08,800
anything beyond that would seem super

346
00:14:12,180 --> 00:14:10,840
crazy I mean we're two years old think

347
00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:12,190
of how young that is I would be

348
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:14,290
surprised if they even got a mile I mean

349
00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:16,480
the woods are a pretty treacherous like

350
00:14:20,970 --> 00:14:18,310
it's kind of tough to climb over logs

351
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:20,980
and and over mountains and sometimes

352
00:14:26,250 --> 00:14:24,850
across big raging rivers you know it

353
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:26,260
doesn't seem like they could get very

354
00:14:29,550 --> 00:14:26,890
far

355
00:14:30,630 --> 00:14:29,560
and that's that's part of the point that

356
00:14:32,580 --> 00:14:30,640
the parents bring up in these

357
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:32,590
discussions they said well you know a

358
00:14:38,220 --> 00:14:34,810
lot of kids don't start walking till 12

359
00:14:40,860 --> 00:14:38,230
to 16 17 months now you draw them in the

360
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:40,870
woods with obstacles creeks like you

361
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:43,570
said logs how far would they go

362
00:14:48,750 --> 00:14:45,370
especially without an adult there

363
00:14:50,910 --> 00:14:48,760
prodding them right that's that's the

364
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:50,920
scariest thing that's why I like this a

365
00:14:56,340 --> 00:14:54,010
little section of stories because it

366
00:14:58,770 --> 00:14:56,350
seems like there's some type of

367
00:15:01,410 --> 00:14:58,780
assistance you know it seems like

368
00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:01,420
there's some kind of intelligent some

369
00:15:05,490 --> 00:15:03,040
kind of being that's able to pick up

370
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:05,500
these kids and take them to areas that

371
00:15:09,270 --> 00:15:07,690
are miles away that they couldn't do on

372
00:15:11,820 --> 00:15:09,280
their own so that's what's so eerie

373
00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:11,830
about it but I guess to get into a

374
00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:15,510
couple of these cases let's talk about

375
00:15:22,410 --> 00:15:20,260
this case of Tommy Jenkins this kid was

376
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:22,420
2 to 3 years old in Fort Lewis

377
00:15:28,290 --> 00:15:25,360
Washington found two days later what's

378
00:15:30,180 --> 00:15:28,300
his story so it's an interesting one for

379
00:15:32,270 --> 00:15:30,190
the people who don't know Fort Lewis is

380
00:15:36,450 --> 00:15:32,280
in the central area of Washington it's

381
00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:36,460
33,000 acres and in 1950 it was a was a

382
00:15:42,890 --> 00:15:39,510
big spot where the US had approximately

383
00:15:45,510 --> 00:15:42,900
6,000 soldiers on site and housed and

384
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:45,520
there's a in the middle of it there's an

385
00:15:49,530 --> 00:15:47,530
area called the American Lake and it's a

386
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:49,540
big lake kind of sitting in the center

387
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:52,690
of the of the fort it kind of bisects

388
00:15:58,610 --> 00:15:56,650
highway 5 in that area and it's a it's a

389
00:16:02,450 --> 00:15:58,620
fairly pristine spot

390
00:16:04,430 --> 00:16:02,460
law on May 4th 1950 Tommy lived in a

391
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:04,440
non-commissioned area of housing with

392
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:06,930
his mom and dad and they lived about

393
00:16:14,750 --> 00:16:11,130
1500 feet from the lake well during that

394
00:16:18,170 --> 00:16:14,760
time span on that day his mom kind of

395
00:16:21,620 --> 00:16:18,180
lost sight of him and she knew that

396
00:16:24,830 --> 00:16:21,630
tommy was playing with an Irish Setter

397
00:16:25,550 --> 00:16:24,840
dog named lassie that belonged to the

398
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:25,560
next-door neighbor

399
00:16:30,500 --> 00:16:28,290
now stop people there here's another

400
00:16:33,730 --> 00:16:30,510
part of this profiling is that a large

401
00:16:37,940 --> 00:16:33,740
large percentage of people and kids

402
00:16:42,290 --> 00:16:37,950
disappear with a canine and I can't

403
00:16:44,570 --> 00:16:42,300
explain it other than its fact and we'll

404
00:16:46,490 --> 00:16:44,580
talk about that more later but Tommy

405
00:16:49,460 --> 00:16:46,500
disappeared with this canine he didn't

406
00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:49,470
arrive back for lunch and if you have

407
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:51,540
kids you know your kids aren't wait for

408
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:54,210
lunch they're hungry kids they come back

409
00:16:59,330 --> 00:16:56,490
and they eat well he doesn't come back

410
00:17:01,910 --> 00:16:59,340
the mom gets scared calls the husband

411
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:01,920
calls officials the base commander did

412
00:17:08,660 --> 00:17:03,810
the right thing he shut down the base

413
00:17:12,290 --> 00:17:08,670
and within hours he had over a thousand

414
00:17:14,660 --> 00:17:12,300
soldiers searching for the boy within 36

415
00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:14,670
hours he stopped everything on the base

416
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:18,240
and he had all 6,000 of the soldiers

417
00:17:23,180 --> 00:17:21,120
searching Wow yet helicopters from the

418
00:17:26,060 --> 00:17:23,190
base in the air and he had planes flying

419
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:26,070
formation around the base three

420
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:28,170
different bloodhound teams were used

421
00:17:35,860 --> 00:17:31,050
looking for Tommy during this time

422
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:35,870
period so the third day rolls around and

423
00:17:44,900 --> 00:17:40,650
a soldier is going through some bush and

424
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:44,910
he finds Tommy and this dog named lassie

425
00:17:53,180 --> 00:17:49,250
on the beach in perfect condition and

426
00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:53,190
they bring them back in and the base

427
00:17:58,700 --> 00:17:56,130
commander gives an interview and in the

428
00:18:01,700 --> 00:17:58,710
interview he says there is no boy this

429
00:18:04,460 --> 00:18:01,710
age that could have survived the rain

430
00:18:06,290 --> 00:18:04,470
and the wind and the outdoor conditions

431
00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:06,300
we've had in the last three days

432
00:18:10,139 --> 00:18:08,400
there's no way unless he had some

433
00:18:12,949 --> 00:18:10,149
assistance

434
00:18:15,719 --> 00:18:12,959
and that kind of shook up the base and

435
00:18:18,989 --> 00:18:15,729
the dad kind of took the lead on that

436
00:18:21,029 --> 00:18:18,999
and tried to question Tommy and he

437
00:18:22,979 --> 00:18:21,039
couldn't get a coherent answer out of

438
00:18:26,219 --> 00:18:22,989
them and he couldn't determine if he was

439
00:18:29,729 --> 00:18:26,229
trying to be evasive or his mind was

440
00:18:32,099 --> 00:18:29,739
blank or something but the final outcome

441
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:32,109
was Tommy was in really really good

442
00:18:35,369 --> 00:18:33,129
condition

443
00:18:37,739 --> 00:18:35,379
for a boy being out supposedly in the

444
00:18:41,009 --> 00:18:37,749
wild for three days and then the other

445
00:18:42,889 --> 00:18:41,019
part of that is how in the heck did six

446
00:18:46,559 --> 00:18:42,899
thousand soldiers three helicopters

447
00:18:49,769 --> 00:18:46,569
multiple planes miss a boy and a dog

448
00:18:52,319 --> 00:18:49,779
right yeah that is such an interesting

449
00:18:54,899 --> 00:18:52,329
case I mean apparently it got 240 degree

450
00:18:57,509 --> 00:18:54,909
weather and you like you said raining

451
00:18:59,819 --> 00:18:57,519
like and the the kid was it seemed like

452
00:19:01,469 --> 00:18:59,829
he was taken inside for two and a half

453
00:19:03,059 --> 00:19:01,479
three days and then brought back out

454
00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:03,069
like he just walked right out into the

455
00:19:07,859 --> 00:19:05,049
yard to play with this dog but I guess

456
00:19:10,109 --> 00:19:07,869
the only real thing that he said that

457
00:19:13,799 --> 00:19:10,119
was kind of interesting as he slept in

458
00:19:15,419 --> 00:19:13,809
an area with no homes and that he fell

459
00:19:19,009 --> 00:19:15,429
into a creek he said he fell into a

460
00:19:23,579 --> 00:19:19,019
creek but he showed up dry just so weird

461
00:19:26,219 --> 00:19:23,589
and again this one case if you read it

462
00:19:28,349 --> 00:19:26,229
on its own you could roll it through

463
00:19:30,899 --> 00:19:28,359
your mind and say you know what maybe he

464
00:19:33,449 --> 00:19:30,909
found some shelter maybe some people

465
00:19:35,969 --> 00:19:33,459
housed them maybe there there was a

466
00:19:39,419 --> 00:19:35,979
crime that occurred here where some

467
00:19:43,049 --> 00:19:39,429
pervert or something took him but that's

468
00:19:45,149 --> 00:19:43,059
one case of that you know hundreds and

469
00:19:47,189 --> 00:19:45,159
hundreds approaching 2,000 now that

470
00:19:49,739 --> 00:19:47,199
we've identified that doesn't make any

471
00:19:51,179 --> 00:19:49,749
sense another thing we should point out

472
00:19:53,429 --> 00:19:51,189
about the numbers that you're gathering

473
00:19:55,829 --> 00:19:53,439
is a lot of this in terms of

474
00:19:58,739 --> 00:19:55,839
documentation there are issues with

475
00:20:00,299 --> 00:19:58,749
classification if someone is presumed

476
00:20:01,739 --> 00:20:00,309
dead because of the elements or if

477
00:20:04,229 --> 00:20:01,749
they've been missing long enough they're

478
00:20:06,479 --> 00:20:04,239
no longer in missing people files that's

479
00:20:09,299 --> 00:20:06,489
kind of an issue for you is when you go

480
00:20:11,909 --> 00:20:09,309
back into some of these isn't it well

481
00:20:14,699 --> 00:20:11,919
and that is a big big issue and that's

482
00:20:17,129 --> 00:20:14,709
part of the National Parks Department of

483
00:20:18,989 --> 00:20:17,139
Interior and US Department of

484
00:20:21,779 --> 00:20:18,999
Agriculture that manages a lot of this

485
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:21,789
land that's part of a classification

486
00:20:25,180 --> 00:20:23,510
they came up with too

487
00:20:28,090 --> 00:20:25,190
eliminate these people from public

488
00:20:31,060 --> 00:20:28,100
record meaning say somebody disappears

489
00:20:34,630 --> 00:20:31,070
in a National Forest and it's snowing

490
00:20:36,970 --> 00:20:34,640
blah blah blah they go 16 months without

491
00:20:38,980 --> 00:20:36,980
finding them then they get a

492
00:20:41,260 --> 00:20:38,990
classification called missing presumed

493
00:20:43,570 --> 00:20:41,270
dead meaning they're deceased meaning

494
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:43,580
they're no longer missing meaning that

495
00:20:48,910 --> 00:20:44,690
you're not going to find them on any

496
00:20:51,970 --> 00:20:48,920
databases as an example the National

497
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:51,980
Institute of justice has a program that

498
00:20:57,870 --> 00:20:53,810
they instituted about four years ago

499
00:21:01,780 --> 00:20:57,880
where they are trying to get DNA on

500
00:21:06,550 --> 00:21:01,790
every missing person case in the United

501
00:21:08,980 --> 00:21:06,560
States because there's coroner's offices

502
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:08,990
throughout the u.s. in these rural areas

503
00:21:13,630 --> 00:21:11,450
many in Oregon and Washington in

504
00:21:16,510 --> 00:21:13,640
California where they have bones that

505
00:21:18,610 --> 00:21:16,520
they can't identify there's no there was

506
00:21:20,860 --> 00:21:18,620
no national database where they could go

507
00:21:23,620 --> 00:21:20,870
to them and say hey did someone

508
00:21:25,540 --> 00:21:23,630
disappear in honor model radius of here

509
00:21:28,060 --> 00:21:25,550
now they can go to this National

510
00:21:29,650 --> 00:21:28,070
Institute of Justice site and they can

511
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:29,660
query it and they can get this

512
00:21:35,500 --> 00:21:32,410
information now in the last 14 months

513
00:21:38,740 --> 00:21:35,510
we've supplied them at their request

514
00:21:41,890 --> 00:21:38,750
with 12 cases that they had never heard

515
00:21:43,750 --> 00:21:41,900
of before missing people that we had

516
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:43,760
gotten the documentation and the reports

517
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:46,490
on many of them come in came out of

518
00:21:52,090 --> 00:21:49,130
Oregon and Washington where they have

519
00:21:54,070 --> 00:21:52,100
this classification or the sheriff's

520
00:21:56,620 --> 00:21:54,080
officer the police department lost the

521
00:21:59,500 --> 00:21:56,630
report and just threw away the case by

522
00:22:01,830 --> 00:21:59,510
accident we we got the documentation

523
00:22:05,230 --> 00:22:01,840
back we went back to them they we

524
00:22:07,300 --> 00:22:05,240
revived the report they just confirmed

525
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:07,310
that the person still missing the

526
00:22:10,990 --> 00:22:08,690
Department of Justice now has this

527
00:22:13,570 --> 00:22:11,000
information Alyssa to justice now has

528
00:22:15,730 --> 00:22:13,580
this information so I like to say that

529
00:22:17,710 --> 00:22:15,740
our work has done some good in this

530
00:22:20,740 --> 00:22:17,720
long-term process of trying to identify

531
00:22:24,610 --> 00:22:20,750
people yeah yeah that's definitely

532
00:22:26,860 --> 00:22:24,620
noteworthy yeah and on the subject of

533
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:26,870
Oregon let's talk about these two cases

534
00:22:30,370 --> 00:22:28,640
that are kind of connected when we're

535
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:30,380
talking about kids that are traveling

536
00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:32,210
distances they shouldn't be able to

537
00:22:37,330 --> 00:22:35,360
these cases are 30 years apart but only

538
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:37,340
19 miles by distance

539
00:22:44,590 --> 00:22:40,330
and that would be Cody shy I think and

540
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:44,600
Keith Parkins Cody Sheehy and and Keith

541
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:46,130
Park is yeah both of them

542
00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:50,690
strange strange cases but in April of

543
00:22:57,250 --> 00:22:54,320
1986 Cody she's 20 starcraft at six

544
00:23:00,130 --> 00:22:57,260
years old he was in an area near willow

545
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:00,140
Oregon it's about 26 miles from the

546
00:23:04,650 --> 00:23:01,970
Washington border in the Blue Mountains

547
00:23:07,540 --> 00:23:04,660
in the far eastern sector of the state

548
00:23:09,460 --> 00:23:07,550
he went on a picnic with his family and

549
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:09,470
he and his sister were playing this game

550
00:23:13,810 --> 00:23:11,450
called explorers where they kind of

551
00:23:16,510 --> 00:23:13,820
split up and they hide and they stay

552
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:16,520
hidden for a little while and anyhow as

553
00:23:21,390 --> 00:23:19,010
was happening at about 12:30 that

554
00:23:23,770 --> 00:23:21,400
afternoon the mom couldn't find Cody

555
00:23:26,860 --> 00:23:23,780
well the mom the dad and the sister

556
00:23:29,230 --> 00:23:26,870
searched till 2:30 and they then called

557
00:23:31,750 --> 00:23:29,240
law enforcement and within a couple of

558
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:31,760
hours this is quick for this part of the

559
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:34,370
country they had to Cal copters in the

560
00:23:41,650 --> 00:23:36,530
air with FLIR forward-looking infrared

561
00:23:43,690 --> 00:23:41,660
radar and a dozen searchers were on site

562
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:43,700
within an hour that first night

563
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:47,930
searchers got up to almost 75 they're

564
00:23:51,250 --> 00:23:49,370
walking on the ground they're yelling

565
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:51,260
for the boy they call in his name blah

566
00:23:56,170 --> 00:23:53,570
blah blah they're not getting any

567
00:23:57,820 --> 00:23:56,180
responses the helicopters with the flare

568
00:24:01,660 --> 00:23:57,830
in the air aren't seeing anything on the

569
00:24:05,770 --> 00:24:01,670
ground at 7:30 a.m. the following

570
00:24:10,030 --> 00:24:05,780
morning Cody arrives at a house on the

571
00:24:13,210 --> 00:24:10,040
outskirts of this nearest town and this

572
00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:13,220
house was 18 miles from where he was

573
00:24:19,780 --> 00:24:15,110
camping with his family on this picnic

574
00:24:23,050 --> 00:24:19,790
and he walked up and he asked for some

575
00:24:24,370 --> 00:24:23,060
help and the people wisely grabbed him

576
00:24:26,110 --> 00:24:24,380
and said hey you know we'll get the help

577
00:24:29,170 --> 00:24:26,120
for a law enforcement was called he's

578
00:24:32,980 --> 00:24:29,180
identified well you need some real

579
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:32,990
fascinating statements he told his

580
00:24:38,970 --> 00:24:35,120
parents and law enforcement that he hid

581
00:24:41,410 --> 00:24:38,980
from a helicopter that night and

582
00:24:43,270 --> 00:24:41,420
interesting part was the hell or no

583
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:43,280
helicopters up at night nay don't fly at

584
00:24:49,289 --> 00:24:46,250
night because of safety reasons and he

585
00:24:52,169 --> 00:24:49,299
also said he hid from coyotes at night

586
00:24:54,570 --> 00:24:52,179
and that puzzled the people because they

587
00:24:57,899 --> 00:24:54,580
they were out at night on foot and they

588
00:24:59,789 --> 00:24:57,909
didn't hear or see any coyotes he was

589
00:25:02,129 --> 00:24:59,799
found to be in excellent condition and

590
00:25:05,220 --> 00:25:02,139
it goes back to that statement he said

591
00:25:10,169 --> 00:25:05,230
earlier Gregg where this boy at six

592
00:25:15,239 --> 00:25:10,179
years old went 18 miles and about 14

593
00:25:19,259 --> 00:25:15,249
hours five hours unbelievable it's it's

594
00:25:21,479 --> 00:25:19,269
too weird and and then Keith Parkins was

595
00:25:23,549 --> 00:25:21,489
actually wait 30 years earlier than that

596
00:25:26,430 --> 00:25:23,559
but just nineteen miles away something

597
00:25:30,869 --> 00:25:26,440
very similar right correct he was

598
00:25:32,369 --> 00:25:30,879
visiting his grandparents ranch and he

599
00:25:35,849 --> 00:25:32,379
was walking around the ranch he was only

600
00:25:38,549 --> 00:25:35,859
2 years old and he disappeared there's a

601
00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:38,559
giant search and people are coming out

602
00:25:43,549 --> 00:25:40,720
of the woodwork to help and this

603
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:43,559
location is 90 miles southwest of Aloha

604
00:25:51,690 --> 00:25:46,690
in the Jensen in the general general

605
00:25:57,210 --> 00:25:51,700
area so to speak and this was in April

606
00:26:00,479 --> 00:25:57,220
of 1952 and the following morning 19

607
00:26:03,029 --> 00:26:00,489
hours later after he disappears two

608
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:03,039
mountain ranges several barbed wire

609
00:26:10,830 --> 00:26:07,450
fences several creeks to search and

610
00:26:14,369 --> 00:26:10,840
rescue people and his dad are in a dry

611
00:26:17,399 --> 00:26:14,379
creek bed 12 miles away and they find

612
00:26:20,060 --> 00:26:17,409
the boy facedown in this dry creek that

613
00:26:23,369 --> 00:26:20,070
alive the barely

614
00:26:26,419 --> 00:26:23,379
now they said is his pants were torn to

615
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:26,429
shreds and he was suffering hypothermia

616
00:26:32,789 --> 00:26:30,369
etc now when we read this and there were

617
00:26:34,649 --> 00:26:32,799
three of us at read this we said well

618
00:26:37,830 --> 00:26:34,659
that's that's a phenomenal story but

619
00:26:40,519 --> 00:26:37,840
almost simultaneously the cops in us

620
00:26:43,619 --> 00:26:40,529
come out and they say oh wait a minute

621
00:26:46,409 --> 00:26:43,629
this two-year-old boy is gone for 19

622
00:26:49,529 --> 00:26:46,419
hours there is an ax search-and-rescue

623
00:26:51,930 --> 00:26:49,539
person in the world that would tell a

624
00:26:54,629 --> 00:26:51,940
dad and other workers to go look in a

625
00:26:58,799 --> 00:26:54,639
creek 12 miles away that's ridiculous

626
00:27:01,289 --> 00:26:58,809
right so our question to ourselves and

627
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:01,299
we threw this around a lot is why were

628
00:27:05,860 --> 00:27:02,810
they there

629
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:05,870
what did they know or why did they

630
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:07,730
suspect that would be a reasonable place

631
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:10,370
to even search mm-hmm yeah I'd have the

632
00:27:17,140 --> 00:27:15,200
same question it's it's very odd and not

633
00:27:19,450 --> 00:27:17,150
only are there a lot of cases where

634
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:19,460
these kids are found many many miles

635
00:27:24,850 --> 00:27:21,770
away but also sometimes in mountainous

636
00:27:27,370 --> 00:27:24,860
areas they're found miles up which seems

637
00:27:31,390 --> 00:27:27,380
even tougher for a kid under 10 years

638
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:31,400
old one of my favorites I thought it's

639
00:27:35,380 --> 00:27:32,930
hard to say favorites but the one of the

640
00:27:40,050 --> 00:27:35,390
ones I thought was most intriguing was

641
00:27:42,340 --> 00:27:40,060
uh Kenneth Edwards five years old in

642
00:27:44,380 --> 00:27:42,350
Rosemont California you remember that

643
00:27:47,950 --> 00:27:44,390
one oh yeah

644
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:47,960
no you know the issue is is that with

645
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:51,410
these cases as you know because you've

646
00:27:57,370 --> 00:27:53,930
looked at them is theirs there are a

647
00:27:59,770 --> 00:27:57,380
series of disappearances that all kind

648
00:28:01,930 --> 00:27:59,780
of look the same after a while and

649
00:28:05,500 --> 00:28:01,940
that's that's the baffling part I mean

650
00:28:08,350 --> 00:28:05,510
these kids that disappear in your mind

651
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:08,360
you don't think well they're not really

652
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:11,120
going to be found you know five miles

653
00:28:15,340 --> 00:28:13,370
away and uphill and so search and risk

654
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:15,350
you may not throw a lot of resources at

655
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:18,170
it but you can it's it case again two

656
00:28:24,130 --> 00:28:18,890
years old

657
00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:24,140
April 4th 1964 about 2:00 p.m. he's in

658
00:28:30,970 --> 00:28:26,510
an area near Rosamond California five

659
00:28:33,700 --> 00:28:30,980
miles north of LA right near the Los

660
00:28:37,620 --> 00:28:33,710
Angeles National Forest his family took

661
00:28:40,030 --> 00:28:37,630
a trip and they got into this area and

662
00:28:44,350 --> 00:28:40,040
somehow or another Kenneth got away from

663
00:28:46,270 --> 00:28:44,360
them well the parents called the CHP

664
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:46,280
California Highway Patrol National Guard

665
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:49,370
Kern County Sheriff's multiple multiple

666
00:28:54,130 --> 00:28:52,090
bloodhound teams come into the area and

667
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:54,140
initially they started to question the

668
00:28:58,950 --> 00:28:55,610
parents because the dogs aren't finding

669
00:29:02,140 --> 00:28:58,960
any scent and this is another part of

670
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:02,150
the profiling is that the dogs on these

671
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:05,090
cases 99.9% of the time can't find a

672
00:29:10,660 --> 00:29:08,450
scent so the sheriff's office moved

673
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:10,670
their perimeter meaning the area they're

674
00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:13,370
searching from two to five miles out and

675
00:29:16,450 --> 00:29:14,960
they're yelling for the boy they're not

676
00:29:19,390 --> 00:29:16,460
hearing anything they're not hearing

677
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:19,400
boy they're not getting anything so a

678
00:29:24,270 --> 00:29:21,770
Native American tracker came in he

679
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:24,280
didn't find any tracks of the boy and

680
00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:26,810
then about two miles from the original

681
00:29:31,150 --> 00:29:29,360
camp they find his jacket in his

682
00:29:33,460 --> 00:29:31,160
sweatshirt which they thought was

683
00:29:35,260 --> 00:29:33,470
strange because it was really pretty

684
00:29:40,690 --> 00:29:35,270
cold outside hmm

685
00:29:44,380 --> 00:29:40,700
and then later on they find him lying on

686
00:29:48,610 --> 00:29:44,390
a ridge top on a cliff seven miles from

687
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:48,620
where he originally disappeared and a

688
00:29:53,470 --> 00:29:50,720
thousand yards from the sheriff's

689
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:53,480
command post which they had moved now

690
00:30:01,030 --> 00:29:57,290
he's found face down which is unusually

691
00:30:02,890 --> 00:30:01,040
an unusual way to find somebody but a

692
00:30:06,340 --> 00:30:02,900
common way that people that we've

693
00:30:08,230 --> 00:30:06,350
identified are found mm-hmm now the

694
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:08,240
original story was is that he was

695
00:30:11,340 --> 00:30:10,610
chasing a rabbit and got away from his

696
00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:11,350
parents

697
00:30:15,790 --> 00:30:14,000
well there's multiple issues about this

698
00:30:17,170 --> 00:30:15,800
that don't make sense first of all how

699
00:30:20,050 --> 00:30:17,180
could the boy outrun his parents for

700
00:30:22,060 --> 00:30:20,060
years chasing a rabbit yeah how could he

701
00:30:23,770 --> 00:30:22,070
get seven miles away at two years old

702
00:30:27,460 --> 00:30:23,780
and how can you find and get on top of

703
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:27,470
the cliff right yeah the climbing is

704
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:30,050
just it's one of those elements that it

705
00:30:34,180 --> 00:30:32,570
adds even another layer of mystery it's

706
00:30:36,460 --> 00:30:34,190
just like it seems like they're being

707
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:36,470
assisted by something or we're just not

708
00:30:41,860 --> 00:30:37,490
given enough credit to these

709
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:41,870
two-year-olds you know I think that if

710
00:30:46,330 --> 00:30:44,930
you if you have kids I think a parent is

711
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:46,340
probably the best judge about the

712
00:30:50,500 --> 00:30:48,170
strength and the ability of their child

713
00:30:52,510 --> 00:30:50,510
and I haven't heard too many say that

714
00:30:57,010 --> 00:30:52,520
that could happen yeah

715
00:30:59,320 --> 00:30:57,020
and there was a another kid Larry Lewis

716
00:31:01,870 --> 00:30:59,330
who is pretty young also in California

717
00:31:04,150 --> 00:31:01,880
and my note here that I took says he was

718
00:31:06,150 --> 00:31:04,160
found several miles up from where he

719
00:31:08,860 --> 00:31:06,160
disappeared you remember that one

720
00:31:13,900 --> 00:31:08,870
that's a weird that that's even a more

721
00:31:16,210 --> 00:31:13,910
unusual case in that is it kind of the

722
00:31:18,250 --> 00:31:16,220
foothills of the Sierra the soft work of

723
00:31:19,020 --> 00:31:18,260
the MOE calumny River in Calaveras

724
00:31:23,460 --> 00:31:19,030
County

725
00:31:25,780 --> 00:31:23,470
June 9th 1945 years old about 10:00 a.m.

726
00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:25,790
family went up there for trout fishing

727
00:31:32,549 --> 00:31:29,110
trip his dad took a couple of the

728
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:32,559
up the river and as they were coming

729
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:35,890
back down Larry disappeared now that

730
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:37,450
it's a pretty good-sized River and so I

731
00:31:41,220 --> 00:31:39,130
think initially the thought was maybe

732
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:41,230
you went into the river but the u.s.

733
00:31:44,460 --> 00:31:42,850
Forest Service in Calaveras County

734
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:44,470
Sheriff's Office did a pretty good job

735
00:31:51,510 --> 00:31:47,290
in in rounding up 100 searchers to comb

736
00:31:55,650 --> 00:31:51,520
the area and they worked it hard and at

737
00:31:59,730 --> 00:31:55,660
4:00 p.m. the following day they found

738
00:32:04,520 --> 00:31:59,740
that Larry had traveled through his 24

739
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:04,530
hours he had climbed in XS up and down

740
00:32:14,250 --> 00:32:10,450
11,000 feet and three miles and he was

741
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:14,260
found sleeping in a thicket now I'll

742
00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:16,330
stop the people here not and I know you

743
00:32:22,730 --> 00:32:19,049
know there's Greg but in these books I

744
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:22,740
in each story there's at least one or

745
00:32:30,270 --> 00:32:27,610
multiple notes about where this

746
00:32:33,630 --> 00:32:30,280
information came from and the articles

747
00:32:35,370 --> 00:32:33,640
and the author etc so if there's any

748
00:32:37,380 --> 00:32:35,380
ever any question now about the veracity

749
00:32:38,970 --> 00:32:37,390
of what I'm saying in here you can

750
00:32:41,940 --> 00:32:38,980
always go back and check and you can see

751
00:32:43,140 --> 00:32:41,950
that this is exactly what was said many

752
00:32:44,940 --> 00:32:43,150
times we get the search and rescue

753
00:32:48,450 --> 00:32:44,950
reports are directly Street law

754
00:32:50,340 --> 00:32:48,460
enforcement reports and I know it's it's

755
00:32:52,020 --> 00:32:50,350
phenomenal to hear these things and you

756
00:32:53,820 --> 00:32:52,030
think oh you know this this is just an

757
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:53,830
isolated case but that's what makes the

758
00:33:00,330 --> 00:32:55,600
books interesting is that these aren't

759
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:00,340
isolated cases mm-hmm and another

760
00:33:04,590 --> 00:33:02,530
commonality we mentioned with with

761
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:04,600
Kenneth Edwards is he took off some of

762
00:33:09,090 --> 00:33:06,130
his clothes he took off his coat and

763
00:33:12,150 --> 00:33:09,100
that seems to happen a lot which is a

764
00:33:16,169 --> 00:33:12,160
really weird thing and that would link

765
00:33:17,850 --> 00:33:16,179
us to the Corey Kelly case not a kid 38

766
00:33:21,210 --> 00:33:17,860
years old but definitely had an issue

767
00:33:24,330 --> 00:33:21,220
with the clothing right now Corey

768
00:33:26,310 --> 00:33:24,340
Kelly's case it that's pretty weird to

769
00:33:30,930 --> 00:33:26,320
say the least but I've actually been

770
00:33:33,450 --> 00:33:30,940
into that area of Minnesota and I mean I

771
00:33:35,610 --> 00:33:33,460
can't you won't believe the facts of it

772
00:33:36,750 --> 00:33:35,620
when you hear it and after you go to the

773
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:36,760
area you're going to say this doesn't

774
00:33:41,220 --> 00:33:38,130
make any sense

775
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:41,230
it's the Red Lake world earnest and far

776
00:33:47,460 --> 00:33:42,610
northern minutes

777
00:33:49,980 --> 00:33:47,470
Zota October 16 2006 Cory was 38 years

778
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:49,990
old he had been to this area many many

779
00:33:55,650 --> 00:33:53,530
times he knew it well him and one of his

780
00:33:59,280 --> 00:33:55,660
best friends named Jim Knapp rude and

781
00:34:02,220 --> 00:33:59,290
Jim's Labrador dog went to the area to

782
00:34:05,070 --> 00:34:02,230
go hunting and as the men were setting

783
00:34:09,149 --> 00:34:05,080
up camp Jim realized that they needed

784
00:34:11,340 --> 00:34:09,159
some some gas for their stoves and so

785
00:34:13,649 --> 00:34:11,350
Cory said that he was going to wait with

786
00:34:15,060 --> 00:34:13,659
the dog while Jim went into town and

787
00:34:18,810 --> 00:34:15,070
Cory was going to take the dog and they

788
00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:18,820
were going to do some grouse hunting so

789
00:34:25,290 --> 00:34:21,129
Jim left Jim comes back in an hour and a

790
00:34:28,349 --> 00:34:25,300
half and Cory's gone and it's about

791
00:34:32,820 --> 00:34:28,359
seven o'clock at night so Jim sets up

792
00:34:34,889 --> 00:34:32,830
the car honks the horn flicks the lights

793
00:34:39,359 --> 00:34:34,899
he's not getting any response for Cory

794
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:39,369
or the dog and he calls if you find some

795
00:34:42,419 --> 00:34:40,810
people that are in another adjoining

796
00:34:43,530 --> 00:34:42,429
camp that we're leaving tells him to

797
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:43,540
call for law enforcement

798
00:34:48,180 --> 00:34:46,090
they bring in massive amount of trips

799
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:48,190
from the Beltrami County Sheriff's and

800
00:34:54,869 --> 00:34:50,649
see troopers and there's a massive

801
00:34:56,700 --> 00:34:54,879
search for two weeks now if you if you

802
00:35:00,240 --> 00:34:56,710
stop for a second and think that

803
00:35:03,390 --> 00:35:00,250
how far can Cory Kelly get in an hour

804
00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:03,400
and a half mm-hmm and how far would you

805
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:05,440
really want to go on an hour and a half

806
00:35:09,690 --> 00:35:06,970
Nona's buddy's going to be back and

807
00:35:11,220 --> 00:35:09,700
they're going to make dinner so all the

808
00:35:13,170 --> 00:35:11,230
indications are that this was going to

809
00:35:14,820 --> 00:35:13,180
be just a short you know maybe go out a

810
00:35:17,310 --> 00:35:14,830
couple hundred yards with the dog and

811
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:17,320
look around and if you see a grouse

812
00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:19,090
great if not come on back and let's make

813
00:35:24,510 --> 00:35:21,430
dinner but that's not not what happened

814
00:35:26,490 --> 00:35:24,520
and the dog didn't respond to all the

815
00:35:28,290 --> 00:35:26,500
bark all the yells and things that net

816
00:35:34,770 --> 00:35:28,300
food was giving for his dog which was

817
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:34,780
strange so on October 25th nine days

818
00:35:42,780 --> 00:35:40,480
after a quarry disappears some searchers

819
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:42,790
were nine miles away and they find the

820
00:35:50,430 --> 00:35:47,200
lab wandering in the woods and it's

821
00:35:52,020 --> 00:35:50,440
dehydrated and hungry now one thing

822
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:52,030
about being dehydrated that didn't make

823
00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:53,890
any sense to the searchers and doesn't

824
00:35:58,560 --> 00:35:56,110
make any sense to me

825
00:36:01,050 --> 00:35:58,570
is that there's more water in this area

826
00:36:04,650 --> 00:36:01,060
of the Red Lake wilderness than you can

827
00:36:07,020 --> 00:36:04,660
imagine it's a very swampy boggy area

828
00:36:11,580 --> 00:36:07,030
where there's no way a dog should ever

829
00:36:13,410 --> 00:36:11,590
be dehydrated and hungry I suppose that

830
00:36:16,620 --> 00:36:13,420
could be true if it hadn't had anything

831
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:16,630
to eat but they took the dog to a vet

832
00:36:21,170 --> 00:36:18,880
and they took a sample from its stomach

833
00:36:27,540 --> 00:36:21,180
and found that it had been eating deer

834
00:36:30,750 --> 00:36:27,550
and that puzzled them so they keep

835
00:36:35,580 --> 00:36:30,760
searching and a day later they find

836
00:36:39,420 --> 00:36:35,590
Corey's cigarettes and a lighter a key

837
00:36:43,410 --> 00:36:39,430
point here Cory was a known hunter he

838
00:36:45,750 --> 00:36:43,420
carried Adam an adequate supply T of of

839
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:45,760
clothes and things to keep warm it

840
00:36:50,010 --> 00:36:48,370
wasn't that cold and he had a lighter

841
00:36:52,650 --> 00:36:50,020
that if you wanted to start a fire he

842
00:36:54,390 --> 00:36:52,660
could start it but this cigarettes and a

843
00:36:57,180 --> 00:36:54,400
lighter were on the ground and that

844
00:36:57,690 --> 00:36:57,190
caused a lot of concern the following

845
00:37:01,620 --> 00:36:57,700
day

846
00:37:05,130 --> 00:37:01,630
14 miles from the campsite a tracker

847
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:05,140
found his overalls his socks and his

848
00:37:14,180 --> 00:37:11,290
hooded sweatshirt now when you read the

849
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:14,190
cases in this books in these books

850
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:16,810
something starts to come out at you and

851
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:19,090
that is is that in on many of these

852
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:21,850
instances people are missing shoes or

853
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:26,170
clothing or both yeah and I know a lot

854
00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:28,210
of people say well all hypothermia sets

855
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:30,910
in and you start stripping clothes but

856
00:37:35,220 --> 00:37:33,130
there was no reason for hypothermia to

857
00:37:37,470 --> 00:37:35,230
set in because Cory had the ability to

858
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:37,480
start fire and he was dressed real warm

859
00:37:43,650 --> 00:37:40,090
and he had the dog with him to keep him

860
00:37:45,540 --> 00:37:43,660
warm right and even if even if you did

861
00:37:48,900 --> 00:37:45,550
have to take off your clothes for some

862
00:37:55,410 --> 00:37:48,910
reason wouldn't you keep track of them

863
00:37:57,720 --> 00:37:55,420
you know I would think and many of the

864
00:37:59,880 --> 00:37:57,730
stories that I write about these

865
00:38:02,330 --> 00:37:59,890
people's clothes are found in close

866
00:38:05,100 --> 00:38:02,340
proximity to where they disappeared even

867
00:38:08,250 --> 00:38:05,110
before hypothermia could ever have set

868
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:08,260
in many of the small kids who find that

869
00:38:10,950 --> 00:38:09,850
they strip their clothes the parents

870
00:38:13,350 --> 00:38:10,960
they didn't even know how to take their

871
00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:13,360
clothes off right yeah at that young age

872
00:38:18,690 --> 00:38:17,440
it's even even weirder I mean you've

873
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:18,700
been looking at this for a lot longer

874
00:38:22,110 --> 00:38:20,650
than I have of course and I can't think

875
00:38:25,830 --> 00:38:22,120
of any but have you ever gotten a

876
00:38:28,020 --> 00:38:25,840
rational response as to why people would

877
00:38:32,550 --> 00:38:28,030
be missing their clothing outside of I

878
00:38:34,620 --> 00:38:32,560
guess hypothermia well I it is called

879
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:34,630
paradoxical undressing and it's

880
00:38:42,090 --> 00:38:36,400
paradoxical because they can't figure it

881
00:38:45,090 --> 00:38:42,100
out right and so I think there's there's

882
00:38:49,470 --> 00:38:45,100
a little more to this than everyone kind

883
00:38:53,970 --> 00:38:49,480
of understands in that it's a convenient

884
00:38:57,420 --> 00:38:53,980
answer to a very complex scenario and as

885
00:38:59,970 --> 00:38:57,430
you'll see so about October 30th about

886
00:39:02,910 --> 00:38:59,980
14 days after the search started snow is

887
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:02,920
falling the hamper the search searched

888
00:39:08,690 --> 00:39:05,650
and again dogs canines coming into the

889
00:39:11,100 --> 00:39:08,700
field they can't pick up a scent and so

890
00:39:13,740 --> 00:39:11,110
this goes off and on for another two

891
00:39:19,020 --> 00:39:13,750
weeks and finally the efforts to find

892
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:19,030
Cory are terminated on November 23rd on

893
00:39:24,180 --> 00:39:22,450
April 28th snow starts to melt things

894
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:24,190
start to come up and again and the

895
00:39:28,410 --> 00:39:26,050
sheriff gets a helicopter and they start

896
00:39:31,950 --> 00:39:28,420
flying the area around where they found

897
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:31,960
is closed and in some real high reads

898
00:39:41,060 --> 00:39:36,250
about 15 feet off a nearby trail they

899
00:39:48,090 --> 00:39:41,070
found find Cory laying nearly naked in

900
00:39:50,900 --> 00:39:48,100
the reads so so does it make sense to

901
00:39:56,220 --> 00:39:50,910
anybody what happened to Cory Kelly no

902
00:39:59,040 --> 00:39:56,230
and the sheriff made a statement that he

903
00:40:02,670 --> 00:39:59,050
thought that Cory must have died that

904
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:02,680
first night and he has no reason why he

905
00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:03,850
made that statement he has no

906
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:07,510
justification and Cory's mother was

907
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:08,650
interviewed and she said I don't believe

908
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:10,930
my son even could have made it 14 miles

909
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:12,850
through the woods to where he was found

910
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:16,330
in that first night hmm and better

911
00:40:22,710 --> 00:40:20,170
better question why would he be right it

912
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:22,720
doesn't make logical sense

913
00:40:28,770 --> 00:40:26,770
and I just think taking off shoes I mean

914
00:40:31,650 --> 00:40:28,780
that is just the worst idea if you're

915
00:40:33,690 --> 00:40:31,660
outside you your feet are very sensitive

916
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:33,700
you can't travel without shoes it just

917
00:40:37,410 --> 00:40:35,530
seems like of all the things you'd want

918
00:40:41,820 --> 00:40:37,420
to keep if you weren't well equipped to

919
00:40:46,260 --> 00:40:41,830
be out there is your shoes so as I've

920
00:40:49,349 --> 00:40:46,270
told this before and our group has

921
00:40:52,170 --> 00:40:49,359
talked about this at length what's the

922
00:40:54,270 --> 00:40:52,180
one thing about shoes that may be

923
00:40:56,580 --> 00:40:54,280
different about everything else we wear

924
00:40:59,520 --> 00:40:56,590
on our body and I always ask people to

925
00:41:01,440 --> 00:40:59,530
think about this and the one thing we've

926
00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:01,450
come up with and we're not saying this

927
00:41:05,130 --> 00:41:03,250
is a reason or it's not but the one

928
00:41:07,950 --> 00:41:05,140
thing about shoes that's different than

929
00:41:10,950 --> 00:41:07,960
everything else we wear is it's probably

930
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:10,960
the one place on our body that has the

931
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:17,410
most bacteria hmm and I don't know what

932
00:41:22,380 --> 00:41:20,050
it means that is the one thing that's

933
00:41:24,450 --> 00:41:22,390
different yeah that's interesting

934
00:41:26,430 --> 00:41:24,460
because I've also thought about that

935
00:41:27,540 --> 00:41:26,440
because I know for a while I was

936
00:41:29,460 --> 00:41:27,550
listening to your interviews and you

937
00:41:31,650 --> 00:41:29,470
would bring up these feet that were

938
00:41:33,660 --> 00:41:31,660
washing up in Nova Scotia I think

939
00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:33,670
something like over a dozen or a couple

940
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:36,160
dozen feet in shoes have washed up on

941
00:41:40,710 --> 00:41:37,930
the coast and I would think the same

942
00:41:42,870 --> 00:41:40,720
thing what's different about shoes and

943
00:41:45,570 --> 00:41:42,880
why are their feet and shoes and no

944
00:41:48,359 --> 00:41:45,580
bodies and my thought process then was

945
00:41:50,670 --> 00:41:48,369
that the creatures of the sea maybe are

946
00:41:52,380 --> 00:41:50,680
eating the bodies but the the shoes are

947
00:41:53,940 --> 00:41:52,390
too tough because of the rubber the

948
00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:53,950
shoes are a little harder to get through

949
00:42:01,349 --> 00:41:57,970
I don't know but yeah it doesn't make

950
00:42:03,900 --> 00:42:01,359
sense in either case no no in the weird

951
00:42:05,730 --> 00:42:03,910
part about those British kilometers I

952
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:05,740
think eight or ten cases now in British

953
00:42:10,820 --> 00:42:08,290
Columbia and I only know of one case

954
00:42:15,300 --> 00:42:10,830
where they've been able to identify who

955
00:42:18,030 --> 00:42:15,310
whose foot it was so I think that's a

956
00:42:19,620 --> 00:42:18,040
perplexing scenario that they can't even

957
00:42:21,870 --> 00:42:19,630
though they have good DNA they can't

958
00:42:23,970 --> 00:42:21,880
seem to identify these people make sure

959
00:42:27,780 --> 00:42:23,980
wonder where they came from or what

960
00:42:31,170 --> 00:42:27,790
happened yeah yeah it's a weird thing

961
00:42:33,450 --> 00:42:31,180
and another case that was super

962
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:33,460
interesting of a kid had gone missing

963
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:34,450
you know we've talked about several

964
00:42:36,359 --> 00:42:36,010
these people are so far from where

965
00:42:37,890 --> 00:42:36,369
theirs

966
00:42:40,859 --> 00:42:37,900
to be you think that it'd be something

967
00:42:42,420 --> 00:42:40,869
assisted but you never get any kind of

968
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:42,430
indication that that might be the case

969
00:42:46,799 --> 00:42:44,650
but there is one story where there is a

970
00:42:49,769 --> 00:42:46,809
slight inclination that there might have

971
00:42:52,170 --> 00:42:49,779
been something intelligent and involved

972
00:42:56,370 --> 00:42:52,180
moving something and that would be

973
00:42:58,380 --> 00:42:56,380
Dennis Martin's case well Dennis this

974
00:43:03,239 --> 00:42:58,390
case is the longest case I've ever

975
00:43:06,450 --> 00:43:03,249
written about in any book and it's it's

976
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:06,460
something that I mean I one of the only

977
00:43:11,730 --> 00:43:09,130
cases I've ever proactively sought out

978
00:43:14,309 --> 00:43:11,740
the parents and probably the hardest

979
00:43:20,359 --> 00:43:14,319
case I've ever sat down to write because

980
00:43:23,249 --> 00:43:20,369
it hurt me to write it but June 14th

981
00:43:25,559 --> 00:43:23,259
1964 Great Smoky Mountain National Park

982
00:43:28,140 --> 00:43:25,569
Dennis was six year old six years old

983
00:43:30,210 --> 00:43:28,150
he's with his dad and his grandpa and

984
00:43:31,739 --> 00:43:30,220
his brother and they're spending a

985
00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:31,749
Father's Day outing and at a location

986
00:43:40,019 --> 00:43:35,440
called Spence field Spence field sits up

987
00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:40,029
about 1500 feet from the lower

988
00:43:45,059 --> 00:43:42,730
elevations of the park it's a very

989
00:43:48,930 --> 00:43:45,069
serene area you got to walk into it you

990
00:43:52,559 --> 00:43:48,940
can't drive to it the family hiked in

991
00:43:55,259 --> 00:43:52,569
the four men and they set up in this

992
00:43:57,180 --> 00:43:55,269
kind of grassy area and the two boys

993
00:43:59,880 --> 00:43:57,190
were playing as grandpa and dad were

994
00:44:02,400 --> 00:43:59,890
sitting there watching them and there's

995
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:02,410
a lot of really really strange things

996
00:44:06,450 --> 00:44:04,690
that happen with this case that nobody

997
00:44:09,269 --> 00:44:06,460
could ever explain and the odds would be

998
00:44:11,849 --> 00:44:09,279
phenomenal but as they're in the middle

999
00:44:15,749 --> 00:44:11,859
of this wilderness setting on the east

1000
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:15,759
in this meadow another family comes up

1001
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:19,450
to the Martins and asked them if their

1002
00:44:24,210 --> 00:44:21,249
boys in their family could play with the

1003
00:44:25,289 --> 00:44:24,220
Martin boys mr. Martin stood up shook

1004
00:44:27,989 --> 00:44:25,299
their hand and goes eh my name's

1005
00:44:31,170 --> 00:44:27,999
so-and-so Martin and the sandwich around

1006
00:44:34,890 --> 00:44:31,180
said oh wow our last names the Martins

1007
00:44:36,509 --> 00:44:34,900
as well huh now what would be those odds

1008
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:36,519
you know you think about that that's

1009
00:44:44,009 --> 00:44:41,440
pretty strange and through the Spence

1010
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:44,019
field area runs the Appalachian Trail

1011
00:44:49,830 --> 00:44:47,650
and during the years I've written a lot

1012
00:44:52,020 --> 00:44:49,840
about the Appalachian Trail and the

1013
00:44:55,050 --> 00:44:52,030
usual things that have happened along it

1014
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:55,060
and there's many strange things but

1015
00:45:00,090 --> 00:44:56,410
through Great Smoky Mountain National

1016
00:45:02,190 --> 00:45:00,100
Park in this area the trail runs so the

1017
00:45:03,780 --> 00:45:02,200
family sit down and they start the boys

1018
00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:03,790
start playing a game of hide and seek

1019
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:06,880
and mr. Martin tells me that he sit in

1020
00:45:13,230 --> 00:45:09,970
the chair and he watches Dennis go up to

1021
00:45:16,170 --> 00:45:13,240
this bush right on the edge of the

1022
00:45:17,850 --> 00:45:16,180
wilderness at the end of this meadow and

1023
00:45:20,790 --> 00:45:17,860
Dennis hides behind the bush and goes

1024
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:20,800
I'm looking at it I'm about 50 60 feet

1025
00:45:26,250 --> 00:45:24,850
away and he says everybody comes out

1026
00:45:29,190 --> 00:45:26,260
from playing hide-and-seek and Dennis

1027
00:45:30,750 --> 00:45:29,200
doesn't come out so he says they call

1028
00:45:33,210 --> 00:45:30,760
the name and then I start walking over

1029
00:45:35,550 --> 00:45:33,220
to the bush and I get behind the bush

1030
00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:35,560
and Dennis is in there and he goes

1031
00:45:39,780 --> 00:45:36,910
something to my gut told me something

1032
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:39,790
really bad happened and the Appalachian

1033
00:45:43,380 --> 00:45:41,410
Trail is right next to where Dennis was

1034
00:45:45,300 --> 00:45:43,390
and mr. Martin took off he was in

1035
00:45:47,540 --> 00:45:45,310
excellent shape he took off running for

1036
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:47,550
two miles down the Appalachian Trail as

1037
00:45:53,940 --> 00:45:50,880
everyone else is looking for the boy and

1038
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:53,950
he comes back and he's nobody can find

1039
00:45:59,220 --> 00:45:57,610
him so the grandpa takes a quick stroll

1040
00:46:01,400 --> 00:45:59,230
down the mountain to get help as

1041
00:46:04,410 --> 00:46:01,410
everyone continues to look for Dennis

1042
00:46:10,500 --> 00:46:04,420
now final taneous Lee as this is going

1043
00:46:11,820 --> 00:46:10,510
on a family from outside the area drives

1044
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:11,830
in the Great Smoky Mountain National

1045
00:46:18,330 --> 00:46:16,450
Park and goes up to a ranger and ask

1046
00:46:21,570 --> 00:46:18,340
them where they can go where they can

1047
00:46:23,370 --> 00:46:21,580
see bears and the Ranger says hey you go

1048
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:23,380
to this area right right outside of

1049
00:46:26,580 --> 00:46:25,330
Cades Cove called Rowan's Creek and

1050
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:26,590
there's a lot of wildlife there you

1051
00:46:31,740 --> 00:46:28,930
should be able to see something family

1052
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:31,750
says okay so family parks their car and

1053
00:46:37,050 --> 00:46:33,970
they start walking up this valley I've

1054
00:46:42,690 --> 00:46:37,060
been in the valley it's pretty thick pre

1055
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:42,700
rugged beautiful and though this is

1056
00:46:47,790 --> 00:46:45,370
another unusual coincidence the last

1057
00:46:52,140 --> 00:46:47,800
name of this family is the key family ke

1058
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:52,150
Y and astonishingly in the opinion of

1059
00:46:58,620 --> 00:46:54,490
many this is the key point of this case

1060
00:47:02,460 --> 00:46:58,630
as the family is walking up Rowan's

1061
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:02,470
Creek their twelve-year-old son says wow

1062
00:47:06,430 --> 00:47:03,680
dad

1063
00:47:10,060 --> 00:47:06,440
look at that and he points up a hill

1064
00:47:13,570 --> 00:47:10,070
that's in front of them says I think I

1065
00:47:16,690 --> 00:47:13,580
see a bear at about this time this

1066
00:47:18,940 --> 00:47:16,700
family hears the scream described as

1067
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:18,950
birth shattering the loudest scream

1068
00:47:22,990 --> 00:47:20,570
they've ever heard in their life and

1069
00:47:26,950 --> 00:47:23,000
they look up the hill and they see this

1070
00:47:29,050 --> 00:47:26,960
thing hot hiding behind trees apparently

1071
00:47:32,260 --> 00:47:29,060
trying to avoid detection by the family

1072
00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:32,270
and the dad says well son I don't think

1073
00:47:38,170 --> 00:47:34,960
that's a bear I think that's a man and

1074
00:47:40,210 --> 00:47:38,180
this thing continues to dodge the trees

1075
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:40,220
but the people get a pretty good look at

1076
00:47:49,270 --> 00:47:45,290
it and eventually they lose sight of it

1077
00:47:51,940 --> 00:47:49,280
and they go back to their car now at

1078
00:47:54,310 --> 00:47:51,950
8:30 that night this the disappearance

1079
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:54,320
of Dennis happened at 4:30 at 8:30 that

1080
00:48:00,490 --> 00:47:57,650
night the rain starts to fall and it

1081
00:48:02,050 --> 00:48:00,500
falls hard at a rate that by midnight

1082
00:48:04,510 --> 00:48:02,060
there was two and a half inches of rain

1083
00:48:07,690 --> 00:48:04,520
in the park and it continued to rain

1084
00:48:09,790 --> 00:48:07,700
like that for the next seven days now

1085
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:09,800
there was a huge response from the US

1086
00:48:18,300 --> 00:48:12,290
Air Force National Park Service local

1087
00:48:21,100 --> 00:48:18,310
jurisdictions etc now Dwight McCarter

1088
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:21,110
eventually was the head tracker for the

1089
00:48:24,010 --> 00:48:22,370
National Park Service in Great Smoky

1090
00:48:26,410 --> 00:48:24,020
Mountain National Park and he wrote a

1091
00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:26,420
book about tracking and he's been

1092
00:48:32,250 --> 00:48:28,910
interviewed a couple of times about this

1093
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:35,170
and interviewed him he's retired now and

1094
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:36,800
he he has a great memory because I'll

1095
00:48:41,890 --> 00:48:39,770
never forget this he said I was one of

1096
00:48:46,330 --> 00:48:41,900
the liaisons between mr. Martin and the

1097
00:48:49,890 --> 00:48:46,340
National Park Service so I'll get back

1098
00:48:52,060 --> 00:48:49,900
to Dwight but as the search is going on

1099
00:48:54,700 --> 00:48:52,070
helicopters are flying in and out and

1100
00:48:56,980 --> 00:48:54,710
two big helicopters come into the park

1101
00:49:00,970 --> 00:48:56,990
filled with the Green Beret Special

1102
00:49:03,070 --> 00:49:00,980
Forces now there's rumors out there that

1103
00:49:05,890 --> 00:49:03,080
oh they were training nearby and just

1104
00:49:08,460 --> 00:49:05,900
happened to stop by the reality of it is

1105
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:08,470
I have a file price four inches thick

1106
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:10,850
from the National Park Service on this

1107
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:13,850
and nobody that I could ever determine

1108
00:49:18,890 --> 00:49:17,010
call them nobody asked me to come in

1109
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:18,900
the search nobody gave him permission to

1110
00:49:24,290 --> 00:49:20,010
land in the park

1111
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:24,300
but they showed up McCarter told me that

1112
00:49:29,210 --> 00:49:26,490
when they came in they set up their own

1113
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:29,220
camp away from everyone else with their

1114
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:32,370
own communication systems and when the

1115
00:49:35,810 --> 00:49:33,930
National Park Service says well why

1116
00:49:37,700 --> 00:49:35,820
don't we put three of your guys with one

1117
00:49:39,710 --> 00:49:37,710
of our guys since we know the area and

1118
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:39,720
we could be more efficient searching

1119
00:49:45,710 --> 00:49:42,650
they said no we'll search by ourselves

1120
00:49:47,330 --> 00:49:45,720
very very strange according to my card

1121
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:47,340
that anybody no other group had ever

1122
00:49:54,230 --> 00:49:51,450
done that before so at the maximum point

1123
00:49:57,500 --> 00:49:54,240
there were almost 1,400 searchers inside

1124
00:50:00,350 --> 00:49:57,510
the park looking for Dennis and the FBI

1125
00:50:02,900 --> 00:50:00,360
sent an agent to quote-unquote monitor

1126
00:50:04,460 --> 00:50:02,910
the case but they didn't suspect their

1127
00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:04,470
crime had occurred but he was going to

1128
00:50:11,090 --> 00:50:08,160
monitor the case so the day after Dennis

1129
00:50:13,070 --> 00:50:11,100
disappears on the front of the Knoxville

1130
00:50:16,490 --> 00:50:13,080
Times is a picture of Dennis Martin

1131
00:50:19,730 --> 00:50:16,500
about this disappearance the key family

1132
00:50:22,250 --> 00:50:19,740
reads it and says wow you know the times

1133
00:50:24,890 --> 00:50:22,260
are kind of close I wonder if what we

1134
00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:24,900
saw on the mountain had something to do

1135
00:50:28,970 --> 00:50:26,730
with Dennis's disappearance since it was

1136
00:50:33,410 --> 00:50:28,980
almost directly below where he

1137
00:50:36,620 --> 00:50:33,420
disappeared right so the FBI sends an

1138
00:50:38,210 --> 00:50:36,630
agent and a ranger to contact the key

1139
00:50:39,950 --> 00:50:38,220
family and the key family says hey we'll

1140
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:39,960
meet you at the park we'll show you the

1141
00:50:45,530 --> 00:50:42,450
point where we saw this and you can kind

1142
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:45,540
of see the distances and things FBI says

1143
00:50:49,730 --> 00:50:47,850
no we'll meet you at your house or

1144
00:50:53,450 --> 00:50:49,740
somewhere in between but don't come to

1145
00:50:55,070 --> 00:50:53,460
the park which is wrong because as an

1146
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:55,080
investigator you want to see the

1147
00:51:01,820 --> 00:50:57,450
distances and see if they could see what

1148
00:51:05,390 --> 00:51:01,830
they claimed to see and and so it seemed

1149
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:05,400
odd and mr. Martin had an agreement with

1150
00:51:10,430 --> 00:51:07,410
the FBI and the Park Service that any

1151
00:51:12,020 --> 00:51:10,440
leads that they had on this case that

1152
00:51:15,140 --> 00:51:12,030
they would immediately come to him and

1153
00:51:16,790 --> 00:51:15,150
tell him he never left the park he

1154
00:51:21,230 --> 00:51:16,800
stayed in the park for six weeks

1155
00:51:23,870 --> 00:51:21,240
non-stop helping looking kind of be in

1156
00:51:26,810 --> 00:51:23,880
the eyes and ears he's an architect he's

1157
00:51:28,430 --> 00:51:26,820
a very smart man and I think he did the

1158
00:51:30,819 --> 00:51:28,440
right thing by staying there and

1159
00:51:35,150 --> 00:51:30,829
monitoring the situation

1160
00:51:37,549 --> 00:51:35,160
but make a long story short that key

1161
00:51:42,019 --> 00:51:37,559
family observation wasn't told to him by

1162
00:51:44,210 --> 00:51:42,029
the FBI or the Park Service a reporter

1163
00:51:46,370 --> 00:51:44,220
happened to hear about it from another

1164
00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:46,380
source went out and interviewed the key

1165
00:51:51,529 --> 00:51:49,680
family came back and told mr. Martin

1166
00:51:54,049 --> 00:51:51,539
that hey the FBI's already interviewed

1167
00:51:56,990 --> 00:51:54,059
this family and you ought to get on this

1168
00:51:58,910 --> 00:51:57,000
this sounds like an interesting lead so

1169
00:52:01,190 --> 00:51:58,920
mr. Martin confronts him and he gets us

1170
00:52:03,980 --> 00:52:01,200
told a series of Lies he gets told it

1171
00:52:06,069 --> 00:52:03,990
the time frames couldn't work he gets

1172
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:06,079
told that it wasn't a substantiated

1173
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:13,170
sighting etc etc etc and he gets mad so

1174
00:52:16,250 --> 00:52:14,730
he gets a hold of McCarter niece's aged

1175
00:52:17,930 --> 00:52:16,260
white he says this they're saying that

1176
00:52:20,289 --> 00:52:17,940
the times don't match up blah blah blah

1177
00:52:23,630 --> 00:52:20,299
and McCarty says well I think they do

1178
00:52:25,509 --> 00:52:23,640
he says lets you and me just move at a

1179
00:52:27,950 --> 00:52:25,519
quick pace let's see if we could do it

1180
00:52:29,539 --> 00:52:27,960
the following day they do it and they do

1181
00:52:33,410 --> 00:52:29,549
it within a timeframe that the key

1182
00:52:35,990 --> 00:52:33,420
family saw what they saw this makes mr.

1183
00:52:39,859 --> 00:52:36,000
Martin even more mad that they're

1184
00:52:40,970 --> 00:52:39,869
outright lying to him now so he gets a

1185
00:52:42,829 --> 00:52:40,980
whole and he actually gets an

1186
00:52:47,690 --> 00:52:42,839
opportunity to talk to the key family

1187
00:52:49,789 --> 00:52:47,700
and he the irritation gets worse make a

1188
00:52:51,819 --> 00:52:49,799
long story short the Park Service

1189
00:52:55,339 --> 00:52:51,829
doesn't tell them the truth

1190
00:52:58,249 --> 00:52:55,349
they're evasive with their answers he

1191
00:53:00,769 --> 00:52:58,259
gets the feeling that he's never told

1192
00:53:02,450 --> 00:53:00,779
the truth from the beginning he told me

1193
00:53:05,089 --> 00:53:02,460
he had the feeling that somebody was

1194
00:53:07,099 --> 00:53:05,099
pulling streams strings up the upper end

1195
00:53:08,539 --> 00:53:07,109
of the National Park Service and that

1196
00:53:12,980 --> 00:53:08,549
the superintendent was merely a

1197
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:12,990
mouthpiece I was his words hmm so if

1198
00:53:17,210 --> 00:53:14,970
this was your son can you imagine how

1199
00:53:18,069 --> 00:53:17,220
irate you'd be at this point right of

1200
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:18,079
course

1201
00:53:24,859 --> 00:53:22,170
so after two months everything starts to

1202
00:53:26,809 --> 00:53:24,869
wind down they really did there's rumors

1203
00:53:28,339 --> 00:53:26,819
that there was a shoe print found

1204
00:53:33,950 --> 00:53:28,349
somewhere they didn't really find

1205
00:53:36,559 --> 00:53:33,960
anything worth a darn and from what I

1206
00:53:39,470 --> 00:53:36,569
read on this and after interviewing the

1207
00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:39,480
Carter McCarter's beliefs were the

1208
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:43,200
Dennis was abducted even though there's

1209
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:44,490
nothing anywhere

1210
00:53:48,859 --> 00:53:47,280
that says that this was a possibility he

1211
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:48,869
was there at the time he knew the

1212
00:53:54,470 --> 00:53:50,970
distances he knew the facts and that was

1213
00:53:57,290 --> 00:53:54,480
his opinion so I said well mr. Martin

1214
00:54:00,290 --> 00:53:57,300
hasn't talked to the press since the day

1215
00:54:03,980 --> 00:54:00,300
this happened supposedly because even

1216
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:03,990
the press lied to him so myself and

1217
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:06,000
another investigator without a phone

1218
00:54:10,070 --> 00:54:07,290
call or anything just when I'm knocked

1219
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:10,080
at his door and he came to the door

1220
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:11,850
recognized them and I explained who I

1221
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:14,010
was I said I devoted months to the case

1222
00:54:18,740 --> 00:54:15,330
I probably know more about it than

1223
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:18,750
anyone other than your family and I'd

1224
00:54:22,580 --> 00:54:20,010
like to talk to you and he says you know

1225
00:54:26,030 --> 00:54:22,590
he says the disappearance has ruined my

1226
00:54:28,670 --> 00:54:26,040
life and my wife's life it's been a

1227
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:28,680
compelling issue for all of us we can't

1228
00:54:32,870 --> 00:54:31,050
get over the fact we lost our son and we

1229
00:54:35,390 --> 00:54:32,880
decided years back to just put it to

1230
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:35,400
rest and not talk about it I said hey I

1231
00:54:39,109 --> 00:54:37,170
came here from California can you give

1232
00:54:40,460 --> 00:54:39,119
me just 15 minutes of your time because

1233
00:54:44,270 --> 00:54:40,470
I have some really important questions

1234
00:54:45,859 --> 00:54:44,280
to ask you opened the door came outside

1235
00:54:48,890 --> 00:54:45,869
on the front porch she says Dave you got

1236
00:54:50,510 --> 00:54:48,900
it what do you want so he confirmed

1237
00:54:53,180 --> 00:54:50,520
everything I just said

1238
00:54:54,650 --> 00:54:53,190
but in addition whenever I'm

1239
00:54:56,030 --> 00:54:54,660
interviewing a witness on a case like

1240
00:54:59,540 --> 00:54:56,040
this I always ask them a series of

1241
00:55:01,280 --> 00:54:59,550
questions at the end that I need clarity

1242
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:01,290
about and things maybe that I didn't

1243
00:55:05,930 --> 00:55:02,850
understand and one of the things I ask

1244
00:55:08,810 --> 00:55:05,940
is that what do I need to know about

1245
00:55:10,870 --> 00:55:08,820
this that wasn't in the press though

1246
00:55:14,650 --> 00:55:10,880
that wasn't talked about in the media

1247
00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:14,660
but has been a compelling issue to you

1248
00:55:18,950 --> 00:55:17,250
mr. Martin says well de because you know

1249
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:18,960
that thing that they saw on the hill I

1250
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:22,290
said yeah and he says there was never

1251
00:55:27,650 --> 00:55:24,690
anything in the paper never anything in

1252
00:55:30,349 --> 00:55:27,660
the media but that key family told

1253
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:30,359
everyone that whatever they saw had

1254
00:55:38,780 --> 00:55:36,720
something on his shoulder hmm and he

1255
00:55:40,609 --> 00:55:38,790
says they wouldn't put that in the paper

1256
00:55:45,109 --> 00:55:40,619
they wouldn't talk about it in public

1257
00:55:47,270 --> 00:55:45,119
but they would tell me man that is such

1258
00:55:52,490 --> 00:55:47,280
a fascinating case with so many details

1259
00:55:54,260 --> 00:55:52,500
it is super sad and if I'm not mistaken

1260
00:55:56,030 --> 00:55:54,270
wasn't there isn't there another detail

1261
00:55:57,650 --> 00:55:56,040
about an FBI agent that was

1262
00:55:58,040 --> 00:55:57,660
investigating a lot of disappearing

1263
00:56:03,050 --> 00:55:58,050
people

1264
00:56:05,740 --> 00:56:03,060
in that area yeah there was and when we

1265
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:05,750
when I started to look into this case

1266
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:09,210
there were several others in the general

1267
00:56:13,610 --> 00:56:12,240
region that disappeared but in addition

1268
00:56:16,250 --> 00:56:13,620
to dentists there were also two other

1269
00:56:19,150 --> 00:56:16,260
people that disappeared inside that Park

1270
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:19,160
after him under suspicious circumstances

1271
00:56:25,310 --> 00:56:22,530
and in all of these cases in the park

1272
00:56:28,220 --> 00:56:25,320
and around the park there was the same

1273
00:56:31,730 --> 00:56:28,230
FBI agent that was sent by the bureau to

1274
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:31,740
quote-unquote monitor the case now when

1275
00:56:37,820 --> 00:56:35,610
an agent is sent to monitor a case every

1276
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:37,830
day he writes a series of notes that

1277
00:56:43,460 --> 00:56:40,290
gets sent to Virginia to the profiling

1278
00:56:46,910 --> 00:56:43,470
center where other agents look at it and

1279
00:56:50,900 --> 00:56:46,920
they try to find matching cases in other

1280
00:56:55,460 --> 00:56:50,910
areas that are similar and similar to

1281
00:56:58,690 --> 00:56:55,470
what I'm doing on these cases and this

1282
00:57:02,450 --> 00:56:58,700
agent did this and all of the cases and

1283
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:02,460
after a while this whatever agent is

1284
00:57:06,530 --> 00:57:04,170
writing it will get responses from

1285
00:57:08,770 --> 00:57:06,540
headquarters about you know this matches

1286
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:08,780
this this matches that blah blah blah

1287
00:57:15,470 --> 00:57:11,730
one my conversations with mr. Martin I

1288
00:57:17,780 --> 00:57:15,480
said okay so yeah the key family saw

1289
00:57:19,850 --> 00:57:17,790
this that I said wow that's that's

1290
00:57:22,460 --> 00:57:19,860
pretty impressed me says yeah he says

1291
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:22,470
Dave I know you also wrote about these

1292
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:24,690
other cases in the area and he said you

1293
00:57:29,660 --> 00:57:26,850
specifically mentioned this FBI agent I

1294
00:57:33,500 --> 00:57:29,670
said yeah he says do you know that that

1295
00:57:35,570 --> 00:57:33,510
FBI agent committed suicide I I had a

1296
00:57:40,190 --> 00:57:35,580
during the headlights look at looking at

1297
00:57:42,740 --> 00:57:40,200
him he said no that's true and after we

1298
00:57:44,860 --> 00:57:42,750
left we did confirm that that agent did

1299
00:57:48,110 --> 00:57:44,870
commit suicide Wow

1300
00:57:50,330 --> 00:57:48,120
it's like this case of all cases is the

1301
00:57:52,190 --> 00:57:50,340
one that makes me think that they know

1302
00:57:55,610 --> 00:57:52,200
more about what's happening and they're

1303
00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:55,620
covering something up and the answer

1304
00:57:59,570 --> 00:57:57,570
that I've heard you give in the past for

1305
00:58:01,340 --> 00:57:59,580
why this might be is just they don't

1306
00:58:03,950 --> 00:58:01,350
want to lose Park revenue because it is

1307
00:58:05,930 --> 00:58:03,960
such a huge thing for their states and

1308
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:05,940
everyone wants just the nice cuddly

1309
00:58:09,380 --> 00:58:07,770
image of Smokey the Bear they don't want

1310
00:58:11,380 --> 00:58:09,390
to think about anything else dangerous

1311
00:58:13,969 --> 00:58:11,390
out there

1312
00:58:16,370 --> 00:58:13,979
one of the things in the latest book

1313
00:58:19,219 --> 00:58:16,380
that I wrote about is I got pretty lucky

1314
00:58:21,019 --> 00:58:19,229
I was in a national park maybe it's a

1315
00:58:24,650 --> 00:58:21,029
year and a half two years ago now with

1316
00:58:29,359 --> 00:58:24,660
another investigator and we were

1317
00:58:31,839 --> 00:58:29,369
listening to a group of Rangers talk in

1318
00:58:34,189 --> 00:58:31,849
a small shed at this National Park I

1319
00:58:35,479 --> 00:58:34,199
just stood in the doorway and listened

1320
00:58:37,370 --> 00:58:35,489
and there are a couple of guys in plain

1321
00:58:39,650 --> 00:58:37,380
clothes that were also chiming and older

1322
00:58:42,259 --> 00:58:39,660
guys and I could tell this one guy

1323
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:42,269
really knew a lot and he was either a

1324
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:45,119
retired ranger or something but I

1325
00:58:48,919 --> 00:58:46,650
followed him out into the parking lot I

1326
00:58:52,759 --> 00:58:48,929
introduced myself and we ended up having

1327
00:58:54,799 --> 00:58:52,769
this lengthy lengthy conversation and he

1328
00:58:57,349 --> 00:58:54,809
was a retired special agent from the

1329
00:59:01,609 --> 00:58:57,359
National Park Service and what that is

1330
00:59:03,949 --> 00:59:01,619
is law enforcement Rangers do that first

1331
00:59:06,319 --> 00:59:03,959
contact on a victim or suspect in the

1332
00:59:08,659 --> 00:59:06,329
field and the special agents inside the

1333
00:59:10,479 --> 00:59:08,669
Park Service are the follow-up entity

1334
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:10,489
they're like the detectives that do the

1335
00:59:15,919 --> 00:59:13,890
long-term investigative work this guy

1336
00:59:18,979 --> 00:59:15,929
was a retired Special Agent for the Park

1337
00:59:20,989 --> 00:59:18,989
Service and I explained to him the type

1338
00:59:23,899 --> 00:59:20,999
of work we've been doing and the results

1339
00:59:26,029 --> 00:59:23,909
we had and the responses and he looked

1340
00:59:27,679 --> 00:59:26,039
me in the eye after I said why would the

1341
00:59:30,589 --> 00:59:27,689
National Park Service take this position

1342
00:59:36,309 --> 00:59:30,599
and the quote him directly said Dave

1343
00:59:40,159 --> 00:59:36,319
it's a complete lack of integrity and

1344
00:59:43,819 --> 00:59:40,169
when a family is at its lowest possible

1345
00:59:45,319 --> 00:59:43,829
point and they look to law enforcement

1346
00:59:48,259 --> 00:59:45,329
and they look to the government for

1347
00:59:50,779 --> 00:59:48,269
support and they get wise and

1348
00:59:53,989 --> 00:59:50,789
invasiveness can you imagine what that

1349
00:59:56,239 --> 00:59:53,999
would do to your as a person at that

1350
00:59:57,739 --> 00:59:56,249
lowest point in your life right I mean

1351
01:00:00,439 --> 00:59:57,749
we deal with a lot of issues on this

1352
01:00:02,569 --> 01:00:00,449
show that involve distrusting government

1353
01:00:05,719 --> 01:00:02,579
agencies but man to think that you would

1354
01:00:07,279 --> 01:00:05,729
have trusted the you know the government

1355
01:00:09,169 --> 01:00:07,289
the whole time and then when you really

1356
01:00:11,239 --> 01:00:09,179
need them you really need them you never

1357
01:00:12,829 --> 01:00:11,249
thought you would and there's just you

1358
01:00:14,599 --> 01:00:12,839
face these kind of roadblocks just to

1359
01:00:19,249 --> 01:00:14,609
get information about your own relatives

1360
01:00:21,420 --> 01:00:19,259
it's very sad it uh it's completely

1361
01:00:23,940 --> 01:00:21,430
debilitating I mean I

1362
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:23,950
I talked to mr. Martin about it and I

1363
01:00:28,830 --> 01:00:25,810
don't know how he didn't go completely

1364
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:28,840
crazy on the Park Service for what they

1365
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:32,290
did to him and he told me he said Dave

1366
01:00:36,090 --> 01:00:33,970
this is the reason why I don't trust the

1367
01:00:38,070 --> 01:00:36,100
press and I don't trust the government

1368
01:00:40,110 --> 01:00:38,080
he said they lied to me they were

1369
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:40,120
evasive he said the only guy that was

1370
01:00:45,570 --> 01:00:43,210
even slight egos was honest to me it was

1371
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:45,580
bright McCarter he said he tried to help

1372
01:00:50,250 --> 01:00:48,250
me understand but even he couldn't

1373
01:00:51,810 --> 01:00:50,260
understand why they didn't think at the

1374
01:00:55,410 --> 01:00:51,820
beginning that this was an introduction

1375
01:00:57,630 --> 01:00:55,420
and handle it appropriately and on a

1376
01:01:00,540 --> 01:00:57,640
subject of that thing that the key

1377
01:01:02,370 --> 01:01:00,550
family saw I mean any speculation on

1378
01:01:04,140 --> 01:01:02,380
what that was I mean did it seem like a

1379
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:04,150
person or I mean she described it as a

1380
01:01:09,270 --> 01:01:06,970
bear of course everyone knows that the

1381
01:01:12,390 --> 01:01:09,280
most famous cryptid is sasquatch I mean

1382
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:12,400
it just seems very weird but that's the

1383
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:13,690
only thing that it kind of seems to

1384
01:01:21,090 --> 01:01:18,250
allude to some McCarter I asked him

1385
01:01:23,070 --> 01:01:21,100
about that and he said well he goes a

1386
01:01:26,580 --> 01:01:23,080
few years before Dennis disappeared

1387
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:26,590
there was a this was a time when the

1388
01:01:32,070 --> 01:01:29,130
Rangers were not armed in national parks

1389
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:32,080
and he said a ranger was working alone

1390
01:01:35,940 --> 01:01:34,210
in a back area of Great Smoky Mountain

1391
01:01:38,990 --> 01:01:35,950
National Park and he was attacked

1392
01:01:42,270 --> 01:01:39,000
by what McCarter described as a Wildman

1393
01:01:45,900 --> 01:01:42,280
meaning a guy living off the grid like

1394
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:45,910
you and me that lived off animals that

1395
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:50,170
wore furs and didn't didn't have any

1396
01:01:56,580 --> 01:01:54,730
ethics and he said that this this wild

1397
01:01:59,250 --> 01:01:56,590
person attacked the Ranger and almost

1398
01:02:01,020 --> 01:01:59,260
killed him and he said you know because

1399
01:02:03,180 --> 01:02:01,030
the only thing I could think of is that

1400
01:02:05,970 --> 01:02:03,190
this family saw one of these wild men

1401
01:02:06,870 --> 01:02:05,980
that lives in the parks that the Park

1402
01:02:11,250 --> 01:02:06,880
Service doesn't want to acknowledge

1403
01:02:13,980 --> 01:02:11,260
lives there and maybe took Dennis but he

1404
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:13,990
says it be conjecture at this point but

1405
01:02:19,290 --> 01:02:15,610
because I don't know what else to think

1406
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:19,300
of it yeah that's so interesting and

1407
01:02:24,270 --> 01:02:22,090
weird and on another radio show I heard

1408
01:02:26,070 --> 01:02:24,280
you talking about this case and you had

1409
01:02:27,540 --> 01:02:26,080
alluded to or you just you just kind of

1410
01:02:29,610 --> 01:02:27,550
mentioned in passing that there was a

1411
01:02:31,830 --> 01:02:29,620
remote viewer report that was fairly

1412
01:02:33,660 --> 01:02:31,840
interesting and I was pretty intrigued

1413
01:02:34,650 --> 01:02:33,670
by that do you have any details on what

1414
01:02:38,070 --> 01:02:34,660
that remote view

1415
01:02:39,780 --> 01:02:38,080
I saw actually wasn't a remote viewer it

1416
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:39,790
was a psychic gotcha

1417
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:43,650
he had written in the Park Service and

1418
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:45,730
supplied a report that was in this

1419
01:02:52,950 --> 01:02:49,810
massive amount of documents and this guy

1420
01:02:56,490 --> 01:02:52,960
had some apparent notoriety for the time

1421
01:02:58,890 --> 01:02:56,500
and said that his mind had a difficult

1422
01:03:03,270 --> 01:02:58,900
time going to where it was going because

1423
01:03:06,630 --> 01:03:03,280
it was such a dark place Wow and he

1424
01:03:11,010 --> 01:03:06,640
thought it was a there was a creek

1425
01:03:13,620 --> 01:03:11,020
nearby that possibly was a cave but that

1426
01:03:16,110 --> 01:03:13,630
what was happening to Dennis was beyond

1427
01:03:19,260 --> 01:03:16,120
the realm of his comprehension it was

1428
01:03:24,420 --> 01:03:19,270
along those kind of lines very bad very

1429
01:03:26,430 --> 01:03:24,430
dark kind of almost a horrific scenario

1430
01:03:31,980 --> 01:03:26,440
he didn't go into much more detail than

1431
01:03:34,740 --> 01:03:31,990
that and I think it's interesting

1432
01:03:36,660 --> 01:03:34,750
because we have a couple of guys that

1433
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:36,670
live in that area that know that Park

1434
01:03:40,140 --> 01:03:38,050
like the back of their hand and I can

1435
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:40,150
tell you that we have done extensive

1436
01:03:47,070 --> 01:03:43,810
research and we can't find an area where

1437
01:03:48,570 --> 01:03:47,080
there's a cave access and a creek

1438
01:03:53,780 --> 01:03:48,580
running through it because we've made

1439
01:03:56,730 --> 01:03:53,790
some big efforts to find it hmm man and

1440
01:03:58,650 --> 01:03:56,740
you know I talk about a lot of

1441
01:04:01,260 --> 01:03:58,660
paranormal concepts on the show they

1442
01:04:04,430 --> 01:04:01,270
come up all the time and sometimes I

1443
01:04:06,510 --> 01:04:04,440
wonder if there aren't some strange

1444
01:04:08,790 --> 01:04:06,520
electromagnetic effects on the planet

1445
01:04:11,070 --> 01:04:08,800
that we don't understand similar to how

1446
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:11,080
planes fly into the Bermuda Triangle and

1447
01:04:16,230 --> 01:04:12,850
are covered in this electric fog and are

1448
01:04:18,390 --> 01:04:16,240
suddenly just disappeared and uh it's it

1449
01:04:19,980 --> 01:04:18,400
seems like some of these people just do

1450
01:04:22,170 --> 01:04:19,990
disappear from the scene as if they

1451
01:04:25,350 --> 01:04:22,180
walked through some type of portal or

1452
01:04:27,900 --> 01:04:25,360
gateway as weird as that sounds I've

1453
01:04:30,390 --> 01:04:27,910
heard that theory before from try

1454
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:30,400
hundreds of people the issue I have with

1455
01:04:37,170 --> 01:04:34,450
it is that it is a very very underlined

1456
01:04:40,260 --> 01:04:37,180
very rare event when more than one

1457
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:40,270
person disappears like this and you'd

1458
01:04:47,420 --> 01:04:43,210
think if that was the scenario we'd be

1459
01:04:48,859 --> 01:04:47,430
losing more than one person at a time or

1460
01:04:53,079 --> 01:04:48,869
there would be witnesses to that other

1461
01:04:56,540 --> 01:04:53,089
person disappearing right that is true

1462
01:04:59,120 --> 01:04:56,550
yeah well I mean another thought I had

1463
01:05:01,430 --> 01:04:59,130
is we cover a ton of conspiracies you

1464
01:05:03,770 --> 01:05:01,440
know alien abductions Bigfoot and other

1465
01:05:05,809 --> 01:05:03,780
cryptids child pedophilia rings of the

1466
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:05,819
Vatican and political elite all sorts of

1467
01:05:09,859 --> 01:05:07,250
conspiracies and mysteries that

1468
01:05:11,809 --> 01:05:09,869
insinuate missing people but a lot of

1469
01:05:13,250 --> 01:05:11,819
times they don't have names or anyone

1470
01:05:16,130 --> 01:05:13,260
who's actually gone missing for these

1471
01:05:18,319 --> 01:05:16,140
things I wonder if some of these events

1472
01:05:20,420 --> 01:05:18,329
aren't connected with these types of

1473
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:20,430
crimes and these types of things that

1474
01:05:25,549 --> 01:05:23,130
people talk about happening so I can

1475
01:05:28,190 --> 01:05:25,559
only look at it from a common sense in a

1476
01:05:31,790 --> 01:05:28,200
factual viewpoint and that is is that

1477
01:05:33,620 --> 01:05:31,800
many of these have occurred pretty deep

1478
01:05:37,700 --> 01:05:33,630
in the wilderness where there's not a

1479
01:05:42,589 --> 01:05:37,710
lot going on and the idea that there's a

1480
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:42,599
human abduction process taking place I

1481
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:46,730
know a lot of friends that are

1482
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:50,730
backpackers that carry guns and if

1483
01:05:54,049 --> 01:05:52,770
somebody's going to try it you know

1484
01:05:57,770 --> 01:05:54,059
there's going to be there's going to be

1485
01:05:59,359 --> 01:05:57,780
some shooting going on and you never

1486
01:06:02,359 --> 01:05:59,369
hear about that and what I've explained

1487
01:06:06,370 --> 01:06:02,369
on other shows is whatever is happening

1488
01:06:10,150 --> 01:06:06,380
here is a hundred percent effective

1489
01:06:14,210 --> 01:06:10,160
because if they weren't we would hear

1490
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:14,220
about a mistake or we would hear about

1491
01:06:19,370 --> 01:06:16,490
an attempt and we don't hear about that

1492
01:06:21,410 --> 01:06:19,380
right yeah it's a serious shame I mean

1493
01:06:23,270 --> 01:06:21,420
this should be one of the most important

1494
01:06:24,950 --> 01:06:23,280
things it involves people dying and we

1495
01:06:26,390 --> 01:06:24,960
don't know why isn't that national

1496
01:06:28,490 --> 01:06:26,400
security you know everyone's worried

1497
01:06:30,260 --> 01:06:28,500
about terrorism globally well here's

1498
01:06:32,150 --> 01:06:30,270
people going missing right in our own

1499
01:06:34,010 --> 01:06:32,160
backyard and we don't know what's going

1500
01:06:35,270 --> 01:06:34,020
on and we don't know who to blame and

1501
01:06:37,450 --> 01:06:35,280
that you would think that they dedicate

1502
01:06:40,339 --> 01:06:37,460
a little bit of resources to that

1503
01:06:43,549 --> 01:06:40,349
well you'd hope but I don't think it's

1504
01:06:45,049 --> 01:06:43,559
going to happen right right well David

1505
01:06:46,339 --> 01:06:45,059
this has been awesome it's about that

1506
01:06:48,500 --> 01:06:46,349
time we called in it's been a

1507
01:06:50,270 --> 01:06:48,510
fascinating show thanks so much for

1508
01:06:52,069 --> 01:06:50,280
being here I mean several listeners have

1509
01:06:54,500 --> 01:06:52,079
requested that you come on and you're

1510
01:06:56,900 --> 01:06:54,510
the only one doing this so I am very

1511
01:06:58,010 --> 01:06:56,910
appreciative but before we go would you

1512
01:06:59,450 --> 01:06:58,020
like to tell the people a little bit

1513
01:07:00,549 --> 01:06:59,460
about your website where to get the

1514
01:07:01,929 --> 01:07:00,559
books and maybe

1515
01:07:05,109 --> 01:07:01,939
what your plans are for the future with

1516
01:07:09,759 --> 01:07:05,119
this stuff so you can go to our website

1517
01:07:12,189 --> 01:07:09,769
it's can M missing comm and all four

1518
01:07:14,199 --> 01:07:12,199
books missing for one one as the title

1519
01:07:16,660 --> 01:07:14,209
of all our books are available on this

1520
01:07:19,209 --> 01:07:16,670
site you can also read about cases that

1521
01:07:21,579 --> 01:07:19,219
are occurring as we speak under current

1522
01:07:23,620 --> 01:07:21,589
events section at the site we try to

1523
01:07:27,729 --> 01:07:23,630
keep it updated with things that are

1524
01:07:29,410 --> 01:07:27,739
relevant and fit the profile I don't

1525
01:07:31,539 --> 01:07:29,420
know if there'll be another book anytime

1526
01:07:33,249 --> 01:07:31,549
in the near future but we are looking

1527
01:07:35,529 --> 01:07:33,259
into some other venues to get this

1528
01:07:37,809 --> 01:07:35,539
message out we are going to continue the

1529
01:07:39,969 --> 01:07:37,819
work and the only way the work continues

1530
01:07:43,269 --> 01:07:39,979
is through the support of people out

1531
01:07:44,650 --> 01:07:43,279
there in buying the books so it's people

1532
01:07:47,140 --> 01:07:44,660
like you Gregg that helped us get the

1533
01:07:49,749 --> 01:07:47,150
word out and have read the work and

1534
01:07:51,759 --> 01:07:49,759
understand that this is a credible issue

1535
01:07:54,099 --> 01:07:51,769
that needs some attention so I

1536
01:07:56,140 --> 01:07:54,109
appreciate that oh absolutely man thank

1537
01:07:57,999 --> 01:07:56,150
you for that and I would recommend him

1538
01:07:59,920 --> 01:07:58,009
to anyone I read the third one and I've

1539
01:08:01,689 --> 01:07:59,930
heard many cases from the first two and

1540
01:08:03,759 --> 01:08:01,699
just hearing now that you've got a

1541
01:08:06,789 --> 01:08:03,769
fourth one I'm super excited to dig into

1542
01:08:08,769 --> 01:08:06,799
that it's it's super interesting stuff

1543
01:08:11,380 --> 01:08:08,779
and far different from a lot of the

1544
01:08:13,650 --> 01:08:11,390
things that are similar in this realm of

1545
01:08:15,759 --> 01:08:13,660
fringe topics that I get into so I

1546
01:08:17,410 --> 01:08:15,769
appreciate it and the families I'm sure

1547
01:08:19,809 --> 01:08:17,420
appreciate what you're doing too but

1548
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:19,819
thanks again you know keep doing it be

1549
01:08:22,899 --> 01:08:21,170
careful out there man you're digging up

1550
01:08:25,599 --> 01:08:22,909
a lot of stuff that some powerful people

1551
01:08:28,390 --> 01:08:25,609
seem to want to stay hidden so make sure

1552
01:08:30,459 --> 01:08:28,400
you take care of yourself I appreciate

1553
01:08:33,399 --> 01:08:30,469
it Greg and I'll try alright man have a

1554
01:08:36,669 --> 01:08:33,409
good one thank you sir you got it there

1555
01:08:39,519 --> 01:08:36,679
we have it people man I love love love

1556
01:08:41,530 --> 01:08:39,529
this show dave is so good at giving the

1557
01:08:43,660 --> 01:08:41,540
details of these cases and it's really

1558
01:08:46,390 --> 01:08:43,670
an unsolved mystery and something fresh

1559
01:08:48,609 --> 01:08:46,400
for conspiracy fans although that sounds

1560
01:08:50,979 --> 01:08:48,619
have been morbid and it was a lot more

1561
01:08:52,930 --> 01:08:50,989
work than normal to comb through and

1562
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:52,940
pull out specific cases that had enough

1563
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:54,650
links to present them as not just

1564
01:08:58,749 --> 01:08:56,690
isolated incidents so in the first hour

1565
01:09:01,209 --> 01:08:58,759
the commonality I latched on to was

1566
01:09:04,689 --> 01:09:01,219
young kids disappearing and being found

1567
01:09:06,700 --> 01:09:04,699
many miles away and Jesus how creepy is

1568
01:09:08,919 --> 01:09:06,710
that and then for the second hour the

1569
01:09:11,140 --> 01:09:08,929
main commonality I tried to focus on was

1570
01:09:13,420 --> 01:09:11,150
people who survived that mentioned

1571
01:09:17,140 --> 01:09:13,430
strange things about their mists

1572
01:09:19,750 --> 01:09:17,150
time meeting dog men and robots and

1573
01:09:22,270 --> 01:09:19,760
grandmas clone or hiding from the people

1574
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:22,280
really weird and if you only heard the

1575
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:23,810
first half and you liked it please

1576
01:09:28,930 --> 01:09:26,330
consider supporting me and the show with

1577
01:09:31,270 --> 01:09:28,940
just $5 a month and I'll support you

1578
01:09:33,340 --> 01:09:31,280
with a longer episode I could really use

1579
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:33,350
some more signups it is a pretty crucial

1580
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:35,090
point but thanks to everyone who has I

1581
01:09:38,950 --> 01:09:36,650
mean we're only on the second show of

1582
01:09:40,750 --> 01:09:38,960
Plus so to support it this early really

1583
01:09:42,070 --> 01:09:40,760
does mean a lot and there were some

1584
01:09:44,020 --> 01:09:42,080
other cool things that came out of the

1585
01:09:46,660 --> 01:09:44,030
second hour today too like the Bermuda

1586
01:09:49,150 --> 01:09:46,670
Triangle connection and David's

1587
01:09:52,690 --> 01:09:49,160
breakdown of the percentage of found

1588
01:09:54,190 --> 01:09:52,700
alive versus dead or never found and you

1589
01:09:56,110 --> 01:09:54,200
know I'm really stuck in a bit of a

1590
01:09:57,610 --> 01:09:56,120
rough place because I want to just give

1591
01:09:59,980 --> 01:09:57,620
the show to everyone but I also need to

1592
01:10:02,800 --> 01:09:59,990
bring in money and the response has been

1593
01:10:04,510 --> 01:10:02,810
super understanding and positive but a

1594
01:10:07,690 --> 01:10:04,520
few folks have told me they'll never

1595
01:10:09,580 --> 01:10:07,700
listen again or I've sold out which is

1596
01:10:12,610 --> 01:10:09,590
kind of unfair because I think I've done

1597
01:10:14,860 --> 01:10:12,620
a lot of free work and it is my passion

1598
01:10:18,610 --> 01:10:14,870
I don't really mind but when it is

1599
01:10:21,130 --> 01:10:18,620
getting in the way of life's necessities

1600
01:10:23,050 --> 01:10:21,140
I got to do something and we're still

1601
01:10:25,060 --> 01:10:23,060
doing the money bomb on the last show of

1602
01:10:27,130 --> 01:10:25,070
every month you know five shows a month

1603
01:10:29,260 --> 01:10:27,140
the last one will be a money bomb winner

1604
01:10:32,140 --> 01:10:29,270
so for people to just be like give me

1605
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:32,150
free [\h__\h] forever or [\h__\h] off that

1606
01:10:38,440 --> 01:10:35,570
really sours my hope for Humanity on a

1607
01:10:40,540 --> 01:10:38,450
grand scale yet some other people are

1608
01:10:42,610 --> 01:10:40,550
pissed that the first hour is now just a

1609
01:10:44,380 --> 01:10:42,620
commercial for the second hour I don't

1610
01:10:46,810 --> 01:10:44,390
want it to be like that either I think

1611
01:10:48,580 --> 01:10:46,820
these first hours can be appreciated on

1612
01:10:50,290 --> 01:10:48,590
their own but I have to inform the

1613
01:10:52,420 --> 01:10:50,300
people about what's in the second hour I

1614
01:10:55,270 --> 01:10:52,430
have to remind listeners the second hour

1615
01:10:57,070 --> 01:10:55,280
exists and I'm trying to survive on it

1616
01:10:59,350 --> 01:10:57,080
and it's available but we're in

1617
01:11:01,810 --> 01:10:59,360
transition and I'm kind of smoothing out

1618
01:11:04,030 --> 01:11:01,820
the edges as we go but the core of the

1619
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:04,040
show which is great interviews has and

1620
01:11:08,620 --> 01:11:07,010
will always remain intact as long as

1621
01:11:10,860 --> 01:11:08,630
there is weirdness and corruption in the

1622
01:11:14,170 --> 01:11:10,870
world and people who support my

1623
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:14,180
adventure in investigating it and if you

1624
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:16,610
really I almost regret saying this but

1625
01:11:22,180 --> 01:11:18,730
if you really don't think you can afford

1626
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:22,190
$5 a month email me and maybe we can

1627
01:11:27,220 --> 01:11:24,770
talk also keep sending your music in

1628
01:11:30,010 --> 01:11:27,230
people I've got great plans too

1629
01:11:32,470 --> 01:11:30,020
create the podcast music archive that

1630
01:11:35,050 --> 01:11:32,480
helps both the artists and the

1631
01:11:36,850 --> 01:11:35,060
independent podcasters out there and I

1632
01:11:38,830 --> 01:11:36,860
think it's going to be a great fusion so

1633
01:11:41,590 --> 01:11:38,840
keep sending me that stuff so I can

1634
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:41,600
build it up go to other podcasters ask

1635
01:11:45,340 --> 01:11:43,370
them to do the same for their audience

1636
01:11:49,150 --> 01:11:45,350
create a big archive that all these

1637
01:11:51,850 --> 01:11:49,160
producers have access to and then

1638
01:11:56,229 --> 01:11:51,860
independent musicians can start here and

1639
01:11:58,240 --> 01:11:56,239
their tracks all over the goddamn net it

1640
01:12:00,340 --> 01:11:58,250
could be really cool but that's it for

1641
01:12:02,650 --> 01:12:00,350
me this week I've done my part

1642
01:12:05,590 --> 01:12:02,660
your move wild men of the deep dark

1643
01:12:12,490 --> 01:12:05,600
redwoods and beyond your [\h__\h] move

1644
01:12:20,870 --> 01:12:16,820
you need to know from corruption to you

1645
01:12:26,459 --> 01:12:20,880
have for sure to grab your weed and

1646
01:12:26,469 --> 01:12:31,840
hi